I don't think Enzo wants any part of Pavlik

[x-PeROxiDE-x]

Kessler, Lacy, Mitchell. All bigger fighters and all bigger punchers than Kelly Pavlik.

Very good call on Mitchell, "The Slama From Alabama" is often overlooked on JC's resume.

[abadger]

Well there are people already saying that Jones would beat Calzaghe, so...



I agree, but there are those who do not.



The following is not what I believe, but it's what a moron looking to discredit a win would say:

Pavlik wasn't p4p top 10 in most people's eyes. His only meaningful win was over Taylor, who almost KO'd him in the first fight and pushed him close enough in the second that more than a few people had Taylor winning the fight. It's true that he was the champion but come on, middleweight was hardly over-flowing with talent. Look no further than his first defense to see how poor the standard of challengers was.

The fact is that Pavlik doesn't have much experience against southpaws and that showed. If you watch his fight with Bronko McKart you'll see that Pavlik had problems and was even knocked down. I mean ffs Bronko McKart is an old man and he knocked down Pavlik, yet Calzaghe couldn't do it even though he is naturally much bigger than McKart?

Another southpaw that would give him problems is Winky Wright, but of course Pavlik wouldn't fight him. I guess we know why now.

Look at what happened in round 5, that proves Calzaghe's defensive flaws that would be exploited by [insert name of top LHW here]. Look at what happened in round 11, that shows that Pavlik was starting to adapt and figure out Calzaghe's style etc.

You see what I mean? You don't need to go through the above point by point, the fact is that there are people on this forum who hold views that are just as ******. There are people on this forum who probably watch about 4/5 fights a year.

Look at the views of Hyperion on Pavlik. Right now he's in the minority, but if Pavlik was to lose to Calzaghe then certain people would suddenly start to hold those views as well. And Hyperion is a knowledgeable guy as well. If a knowledgeable guy can think that, I've no doubt that the less intelligent posters easily could.



Well if Pavlik beats Calzaghe at 168 then that would no longer be the case. Granted, Calzaghe is set to retire but his legacy/overall standing will be affected by his next fight.

Terrific post Clegg. The future dismissal of Pavlik you included was so on point its incredible. If they fight and Kelly loses that will become the accepted wisdom amongst the Calzaghe critics on here.

[krispy kreme]

The only answer I have for you is to recommend in the strongest possible terms that you watch the Kessler v Calzaghe fight in full (you can dl it from the video trading block of this forum I think). While you watch it, forget any opinions you have of the fighters and look at it just as two boxers you never heard of. Afterwards, ask yourself really if you still think that Pavlik is a better defensively, in terms of speed, workrate, movement defense or skill, and whether Calzaghe has anything other than a chin of iron.

Please, if you really think that you are right and I am wrong then don't argue with me, just watch that fight, and argue with me afterwards. Deal?

I was making an assumption. I will go back and watch the fight, but I doubt my opinion will change,

[RodBarker]

Kessler, Lacy, Mitchell. All bigger fighters and all bigger punchers than Kelly Pavlik.

They all may have a single bigger punch but Kelly hits harder over the entirety of the fight , Pavlik breaks you down the way Cotto does these are your Monzon type fighters ,,, at 6'2" and as raw boned all piano wire Kelly is , he will handle 168 extremely well .. I see Pavlik as a big danger fight for Calzaghe ,,, I honestly dont think it will happen and Joe will take the easier route of Jones , and I dont blame Joe at all , he would cash in the same or more with Jones so why fight Pavlik when the public will accept Jones , Kelly is a real bad ass and Im sure Enzo wont want him .

[Clegg]

don't be so cynical , my british friend. although i know what you're saying.

remember every fighter here has people that will discount what the boxers do no matter what. i'm one of the guys that don't think that highly of joe but he's still a good fighter in my eyes and not someone to be crapped on.

Yep, I agree. There are people here who only seem to post about their dislike of Mayweather, Cotto, Margarito or someone else.

As for how you rate Calzaghe, that's cool. I like the guy but he's not p4p #1 and I think LHW is wrong for him and that he'd have major problems with Chad Dawson. I'd probably expect Dawson to beat him to be honest.

but do you see my point that a tarver and jones win will mean more than a pavlik win right now? i don't rate a win over an old hopkins that high but it's still HOPKINS! and i gave joe credit for taking the 175 lineal. the same with jones and tarver. pavlik won't add to joe's calzaghe unless kelly ends up dominating for years to come. frankly i want roy to retire. seeing him lose hurts. tarver i want joe to embarass though.

I think Pavlik probably will dominate for at least a few years. Obviously you never know who is just around the corner but he seems quite a bit better than the rest of his division and the rest of 168 as well. I think that most people would look at Tarver and RJJ and say that they were too old. I also think that Calzaghe would struggle to be impressive against Tarver because of his style.

But I know what you mean and can see your point.

[Dorian]

Man you guys crack me up. An incredible performance by Kelly to beat Gary Lockett! Absolute proof that Joe wouldn't have a chance!

Joe isn't a boxing bag like Lockett

[krispy kreme]

Kessler, Lacy, Mitchell. All bigger fighters and all bigger punchers than Kelly Pavlik.

Lacy is a good puncher as well as Kessler, but you have to look further into it. Who have they knocked out? You can have power for example like Kermit Cintron, but never KO anyone creditable. So when you get into the ring with a fighter who has been tested against quality opponents, you cant hurt him. Pavlik has KO'd guys who are creditable.

[abadger]

I was making an assumption. I will go back and watch the fight, but I doubt my opinion will change,

Thanks. Enjoy it too, its a great fight.

[abadger]

Joe isn't a boxing bag like Lockett

I know it...you know it. Seems others fail to grasp it.

[DuttyAlacrity]

Calzaghe has excellent head and torso movement for slipping punches when placed on the back foot, also he is very adept at moving into positions his opponent does not expect him to be on completing a flurry. He used to have lightning reflexes too, but these days, perhaps not so much.

The only time he ever really gets hit is when he is coming in for an attack himself, and then only if his opponent is an excellent counter-puncher. He is in fact a back foot fighter, preferring his opponent to come at him, slip his attack and then flurry him while he is exposed. This is the reason that Hopkins wasn't his best performance.

That is a good point. I still like kelly if the match up were to ever take place though. Like i said if joe uses his movement and his speed, Kelly may be in for a long night, but if he fights toe 2 toe I can't see him goin 12 rounds.
Luke-X - There is no way joe will ko Pavlik no way.