Ali sports century

[hayZ]

brought a tear to my eye, anyone got any other videos like this? doesent have to be about ali

[Hard Boiled HK]

I think he has the quote wrong from the little boy. I read that the little boy said "No Champ, I'm going to meet God and tell him you're my friend" instead of "I'm going to tell him I know you."

[hellfire508]

Butterfly, I'm off to pound some nails, but after work today (or tomorrow) I'd like to make a thread on Ali...

I'd hope you and especially, Hellfire, share your views & opinions on the situation(s) I bring up.

What's it about?

[killerl1g]

That is so sad, does bring a tear to the eye, iv hear the story before but never seen it. Thanks for putting this up here, means alot, ali is my hero.

And i forgot who said it but : " A man who does not cry has no heart, and a man without a heart is not a man "

[Yogi]

What's it about?

I've given up on the idea of making a thread about it, but it was going to be in regards to your "But seriously, do you think Ali was ducking Norton?" question over at ESB, as well as some other documented circumstances from the time (newspaper articles, ****zines, etc.) of Ali trying to take the easy way out during his second title reign.

[hellfire508]

I've given up on the idea of making a thread about it, but it was going to be in regards to your "But seriously, do you think Ali was ducking Norton?" question over at ESB, as well as some other documented circumstances from the time (newspaper articles, ****zines, etc.) of Ali trying to take the easy way out during his second title reign.

Oh I see. I hate hearing people say Ali ducked somebody. All you have to do is look at his resume, and the question shouldn't be brought up. But, each to their own.

[Yogi]

I hate hearing people say Ali ducked somebody. All you have to do is look at his resume, and the question shouldn't be brought up.

His resume is impressive, obviously...but beyond looking at that, one can also look back at that time (his second reign) via the newspaper or ****zine route and see that Ali did show much reluctance in facing his most deserving challengers & most preferred to talk up fights with the likes of Alfio Righetti or a Lorenzo Zanon. Now whether the question "should" be brought up or not, the fact of the matter it WAS brought up on many occasions during that time and rightfully so, I think...

As the heavyweight champion of the world I think that fighter has the responsibilty to defend against the most deserving challengers, not proclaim that "I'm bigger than boxing" when threatened to have his title stripped by a group that had already gave Ali much more leeway than normal.

[Southpaw Stinger]

As the heavyweight champion of the world I think that fighter has the responsibilty to defend against the most deserving challengers

Try telling that to todays champions. They win a title then spend the rest of their career fighting once or twice a year against bums.

[hellfire508]

While I do agree the most deserving challenger should be given a shot, its not like Ali faced bums during the second reign. Since you saw the thread over at ESB, I'll just copy a bit of what I said over there:

These are Ali's defences post-Zaire:

1975
Joe Frazier -- (2nd ranked contender at end of 74)
Ron Lyle -- (3rd ranked contender at end of 74)
Chuck Wepner -- (8th ranked contender at end of 74)
Joe Bugner -- (5th ranked contender at end of 74)
Coopman -- (Was a bum)

1976
Jimmy Young -- (2nd ranked contender at end of 75)
Richard Dunn -- (Nothing)
Ken Norton -- (1st ranked contender at end of 75)

1977
Evangelista -- (Nothing)
Earnie Shavers -- (Despite being ranked 6th at end of 75, and not losing a fight in 76, wasn't in the 10 at end of 76 - still very good opponent)

Then we get to Leon Spinks.

_______
That's a bit I did at ESB.

The only fighter who didn't get a shot during that period who deserved one, was George Foreman, who Ali had knocked out anyway (though he still probably deserved one before Young beat him). After George and everyone else Ali faced, the highest ranked contender who didn't get a shot was Bobick. Ali ducked nobody, I don't care who you are, you can't fight the best possible opponent every fight. He was still fighting the best out there, with some lower ranked contenders scattered between the best.

You can look at any heavyweight champion and claim they didn't fight the best contender at that time:
Look at this year: I've picked a year of Louis' reign at random, 1938.
Top ten contenders at the end of 1937 were:

1. Max Schmeling
2. Tommy Farr
3. Nathan Mann
4. Alberto Lovell
5. Tony Galento
6. Jimmy Adamick
7. Lou Nova
8. Bob pastor
9. Roscoe Toles
10. Andre Lenglet

Louis fought against Mann (3rd), then Harry Thomas (nobody), then the rematch with Schmelling (1st).

Then, 1939 came along, and Louis fought John Henry-Lewis, who wasn't in the top 10 contenders. Then Jack Roper, who had almost a 1 for 1 win/loss record, and obviously wasn't ranked, and then Galento. What about Max Baer and Lou Nova? They were the 1st and 2nd ranked contenders, Max was stopped by Nova in June, so that's fair enough (though he should've been faced before Roper, Henry-Lewis and Galento), but why wasn't Nova faced then? He had just beaten the number 2 contender Baer in convincing fashion, but instead Louis faced Pastor, around the same time Nova faced Galento (which he lost anyway).

So basically, I've picked two years at random, and I found that Louis faced tomato cans instead of the top 2 contenders. Yes, the contenders were beaten later in the year, but that's not to say Louis didn't have plenty of opportunity to fight them. Much like Foreman with Ali? Young beat him, but Ali could've faced him prior to that. But big deal? These guys had amazing reigns, thats the bottom line.

[Southpaw Stinger]

While I do agree the most deserving challenger should be given a shot, its not like Ali faced bums during the second reign. Since you saw the thread over at ESB, I'll just copy a bit of what I said over there:

These are Ali's defences post-Zaire:

1975
Joe Frazier -- (2nd ranked contender at end of 74)
Ron Lyle -- (3rd ranked contender at end of 74)
Chuck Wepner -- (8th ranked contender at end of 74)
Joe Bugner -- (5th ranked contender at end of 74)
Coopman -- (Was a bum)

1976
Jimmy Young -- (2nd ranked contender at end of 75)
Richard Dunn -- (Nothing)
Ken Norton -- (1st ranked contender at end of 75)

1977
Evangelista -- (Nothing)
Earnie Shavers -- (Despite being ranked 6th at end of 75, and not losing a fight in 76, wasn't in the 10 at end of 76 - still very good opponent)

Then we get to Leon Spinks.

_______
That's a bit I did at ESB.

The only fighter who didn't get a shot during that period who deserved one, was George Foreman, who Ali had knocked out anyway (though he still probably deserved one before Young beat him). After George and everyone else Ali faced, the highest ranked contender who didn't get a shot was Bobick. Ali ducked nobody, I don't care who you are, you can't fight the best possible opponent every fight. He was still fighting the best out there, with some lower ranked contenders scattered between the best.

You can look at any heavyweight champion and claim they didn't fight the best contender at that time:
Look at this year: I've picked a year of Louis' reign at random, 1938.
Top ten contenders at the end of 1937 were:

1. Max Schmeling
2. Tommy Farr
3. Nathan Mann
4. Alberto Lovell
5. Tony Galento
6. Jimmy Adamick
7. Lou Nova
8. Bob pastor
9. Roscoe Toles
10. Andre Lenglet

Louis fought against Mann (3rd), then Harry Thomas (nobody), then the rematch with Schmelling (1st).

Then, 1939 came along, and Louis fought John Henry-Lewis, who wasn't in the top 10 contenders. Then Jack Roper, who had almost a 1 for 1 win/loss record, and obviously wasn't ranked, and then Galento. What about Max Baer and Lou Nova? They were the 1st and 2nd ranked contenders, Max was stopped by Nova in June, so that's fair enough (though he should've been faced before Roper, Henry-Lewis and Galento), but why wasn't Nova faced then? He had just beaten the number 2 contender Baer in convincing fashion, but instead Louis faced Pastor, around the same time Nova faced Galento (which he lost anyway).

So basically, I've picked two years at random, and I found that Louis faced tomato cans instead of the top 2 contenders. Yes, the contenders were beaten later in the year, but that's not to say Louis didn't have plenty of opportunity to fight them. Much like Foreman with Ali? Young beat him, but Ali could've faced him prior to that. But big deal? These guys had amazing reigns, thats the bottom line.

Great post. K coming your way.