My Top Ten ATG LHWs

[Quercusalba]

Because LHW seems to never get any attention.

1. Ezzard Charles
2. Micheal Spinks
3. Archie Moore
4. Roy Jones Jr
5. Joey Maxim
6. John Henry Lewis
7. Tommy Lougran
8. Gene Tunney
9. Kid Norfolk
10. Harry Matthews



Did Tunney not ever actually win the LHW world title? I'd have him higher but it seems odd to rate him above title holders based on resume and historian ratings alone.

Not sure Norfolk really counts as a LHW or a MW, but, he took the measure of great men anywhere from MW to HW.

Back to the OP because I need to throw out a name I haven't seen mentioned yet...Dariusz Michalczewski. 23 title defenses should count for something. Does he get overlooked because he only fought in Europe, because he only briefly held straps other than the WBO, because of limited high-profile opponents (although Virgil Hill is a HOFer)?

He'll never be considered an all-timer, but I just want to give The Tiger some props.

[Anthony342]

I appreciate that.

Used to be the majority of my life. I had questions that needed answers and my father had passed from cancer when I was 24...plenty of reason for a constant distraction from my own life. It wasn't just I was a bit young, it was I'd never seen my father fail at anything. I didn't believe cancer could beat him, tbh, I'm still shocked.

Basic casual perspectives set me up really. Like how people regard BK as rock'em sock'em robots era. If that was actually the case then we'd have a gloved wizard of defense who started the whole defense craze. Mayweather can't exist without say Gans who has his own questions because defense is a thing he learned like May, going back and back I find Mendoza but even he leads you more backward, causing more questions. Mendoza takes his defense from swordplay. So now swords! learn about the talhoffers and **** and find myself right back in boxing before swords. Melankomas is there to say "Kid, we always blocked and moved." In like the first century. Back and back some more until I find the real era where defense really began. In the beginning, in Sparta. And even then, some are not satisfied and want to grow the meaning of boxing into any fist fighting event. In that regard, who, where, when, I am comfortable claiming cavemen. I'd imagine even Erectus moved out of the way of an oncoming stone or fist. Plenty pre-sparta but for me, my question is answered. As far as training, ideas being tested and re-imagined and re-tested, Sparta began it all, including defense.

Always been into history and the boxer's stories from non-boxing history, Like Yankee Sullivan, pulled me into boxing. I only got into filmed and modern boxing because I wanted to see what I was reading, and that is such a thrill I'm still watching for it.


I like Wilder because he fights like I imagined from descriptions of ancient and bare knuckle eras. I like Marciano because he leaves little to assumption, that is sword and shield or I didn't learn a damn thing. People tell me about resume and ****, and it's good to learn from, but, really, I don't actually give a damn who beat who. My interests are more sport-wide. Who did what to this sport.

Which is why I drop Mendoza as often as possible. He is, imo, the single most important shaper of the sport.

That leaves me with a special kind of knowledge that lets me seem more knowledgable than a lot of posters but the truth is most here who are good posters know the wins and losses much better than I do. I even used Boxrec ratings as a quick way to judge if a man fought ranked fighters before I hit the press of the era. When you're trying to figure out things like, why TF was cleeted kicking in boxing, it's not X beat Y articles you focus on.


More recently my company isn't doing great and I've had a baby. It's looking like my days as a proper researcher are about over. That's why I find myself here more often. Asking people for what they know rather than putting in my own work and telling people what I've found. Soon as my daughter is old enough I'll be back at it.

Good stuff. Even MMA goes back that far I've found, with mixed fights going all the way back to the days of Pankration in ancient Greece, which is why I used to laugh at the MMA haters that used to call the sport a fad that was somehow inferior to boxing when in reality, it's been around just as long in some form. The Gracies just brought it to the US.

[billeau2]

Good stuff. Even MMA goes back that far I've found, with mixed fights going all the way back to the days of Pankration in ancient Greece, which is why I used to laugh at the MMA haters that used to call the sport a fad that was somehow inferior to boxing when in reality, it's been around just as long in some form. The Gracies just brought it to the US.

Pankration even has a modern renaissance, reconstructed and was put to the Olympic Committee. This is before MMA was popular.

.

Arvantis was the real deal. Very committed to better methods and realistic training. I always held him in high regard as a teacher in an inner city environment of the generation that my teachers were from.

[billeau2]

As I see it you only need to be great in the division to be considered a great of the division.

For example, Tunney only has Dempsey as a great HW win, but, that's better than anyone Akinwande beat. If a fella rates Dempsey like a god then I have no issue with him rating Tunney highly off that one name.

M, you might want to look at that link I posted to Anthony regarding your research. Jim Arvantis is a kindred spirit who has looked at some of the same source materials regarding Hellinistic Greek sport, combat ideology, as a distinct movement. I always loved to read Arvantis' stuff that came down the pike in Black Belt, a ****zine I actually wrote for myself.

[NChristo-]

No love for Harry Greb from anyone ?.

[Marchegiano]

M, you might want to look at that link I posted to Anthony regarding your research. Jim Arvantis is a kindred spirit who has looked at some of the same source materials regarding Hellinistic Greek sport, combat ideology, as a distinct movement. I always loved to read Arvantis' stuff that came down the pike in Black Belt, a ****zine I actually wrote for myself.

Definitely

[Marchegiano]

No love for Harry Greb from anyone ?.

Greb's a MW.

[NChristo-]

Greb's a MW.

With a light heavyweight resume which should fit comfortably into the top 10 of any list.

[Marchegiano]

With a light heavyweight resume which should fit comfortably into the top 10 of any list.

Hit me with it.

[NChristo-]

Hit me with it.

Gibbons, Tunney, Loughran, Rosenbloom, Levinsky, Mctigue, Slattery, Kid Norfolk, Miske and Delaney.