Looking at Film versus Understanding Film

[billeau2]

My intention here is not to single out any member, and not to say I am not guilty of similar transgressions.

The point is when we are looking at a fight, do we know what we are supposed to look for? What we are seeing? Without understanding certain conventions we really miss a lot of information.

Now, I had a discussion with DoctorZ and I simply want to point out that, regardless of what one critiques, we have to be aware of certain conventions. Here is a film of Louis versus Godoy



Now look at this video describing a false center line stance:



We have to know about this technique to understand why the fighters look a certain way. If we do not it appears that fighters are off balance.

Same problem when we look at preclassical fighters who fight at a different length and control distance different than Classical boxing.

Lets also keep in mind that the Amature style we see now is ver basic. It does not employ angles, fighting off the back foot, or different guard positions. Many of the skills we see in boxing have gone by the wayside. then you have throwback fighters like Toney and Hopkins who employ these tricks.

what are things we can look for in film? specifically?

[Dr. Z]

Louis left very low 1:28 mark, like near his belt line! For many seconds.

1:40 Mark Godoy easily pushes Louis to the ropes.

1:47 Louis' hand is way too low again.

156: Godoy again bulls Louis to the ropes and out lands him.

How much further do you want go? I don't count many punches landed by Louis. Do you see what I'm talking about. IMO, Louis has an issue with fighter who get low or fight out of a crouch and is too easy to manhandle. I believe he and Godoy were close in weight.

[billeau2]

Louis left very low 1:28 mark, like near his belt line! For many seconds.

1:40 Mark Godoy easily pushes Louis to the ropes.

1:47 Louis' hand is way too low again.

156: Godoy again bulls Louis to the ropes and out lands him.

How much further do you want go? I don't count many punches landed by Louis. Do you see what I'm talking about. IMO, Louis has an issue with fighter who get low or fight out of a crouch and is too easy to manhandle. I believe he and Godoy were close in weight.

3 incidents in a fight establishes a habit? Louis connects when they exchange, you can see clean punches Louis lands with... Godoy is excellent, his plan to smother Louis is ingenius and he does frustrate Louis. But he is never a threat to catch Louis with a quick shot over a low guard. His tactic is rather to smother Louis and attack on the ropes.

Godoy does land at times. He even controls the fight at times, but Louis, many times turns him on the ropes.

[Dr. Z]

3 incidents in a fight establishes a habit? Louis connects when they exchange, you can see clean punches Louis lands with... Godoy is excellent, his plan to smother Louis is ingenius and he does frustrate Louis. But he is never a threat to catch Louis with a quick shot over a low guard. His tactic is rather to smother Louis and attack on the ropes.

Godoy does land at times. He even controls the fight at times, but Louis, many times turns him on the ropes.

More like three incidents in round one which had more time to go when I stopped. Yes, if I went on you would clearly see a habit. I have seen this fight before, Louis forget there was a punch called the uppercut.

How many punches do you think Louis landed in round one? Just curious?

Louis does not look good. Should I go one with examples on his low guard? I can easily do so. Louis looks nothing at all like the coach you posted. Not even close.

And to address another point, a person's build certainly has something or at least should have something to due with a person's style. For example if your short with short arms, you better off as a puncher/swarmer, as opposed to being a boxer.

[billeau2]

More like three incidents in round one which had more time to go when I stopped. Yes, if I went on you would clearly see a habit. I have seen this fight before, Louis forget there was a punch called the uppercut.

How many punches do you think Louis landed in round one? Just curious?

Louis does not look good. Should I go one with examples on his low guard? I can easily do so. Louis looks nothing at all like the coach you posted. Not even close.

And to address another point, a person's build certainly has something or at least should have something to due with a person's style. For example if your short with short arms, you better off as a puncher/swarmer, as opposed to being a boxer.

I dont think there is a problem with a low guard, so no... you do not have to go on lol. I don't dispute a low guard, I just do not think it is a problem. Louis was smothered but hit cleanly and accurately, did you watch the entire fight?

You keep going on about a person's build, the trainer, yda yada... I was just giving you someone who explained the concept of a false centerline. His role was to explain to you a concept utilized by fighters at that time...

[Marchegiano]

Louis left very low 1:28 mark, like near his belt line! For many seconds.

1:40 Mark Godoy easily pushes Louis to the ropes.

1:47 Louis' hand is way too low again.

156: Godoy again bulls Louis to the ropes and out lands him.

How much further do you want go? I don't count many punches landed by Louis. Do you see what I'm talking about. IMO, Louis has an issue with fighter who get low or fight out of a crouch and is too easy to manhandle. I believe he and Godoy were close in weight.

I'm not sure what you two are talking about.

His hand is too low except he's landing jabs, forcing resets, and when Godoy does run through a jab to close he got clinched. I'm confused.

Too low as in X is right and all things, regardless of effect, that are not X is wrong?

Seems to me the times you're pointing out Joe Louis is winning. It's Godoy would seems uncomfortable with leaving the clinch, Godoy looking for an opportunity, and Godoy eating bigger shots.


Seems really nitpicky. Let me set my hand a few inches from your head, you can get as low as you like, you'll get smacked first, and hey, what do we see? Godoy gets smacked first.

6:20 Godoy lands a good one...after, not before, being jabbed right in his face. Probably if he didn't have to eat a jab he'd've landed better.

[billeau2]

I'm not sure what you two are talking about.

His hand is too low except he's landing jabs, forcing resets, and when Godoy does run through a jab to close he got clinched. I'm confused.

Too low as in X is right and all things, regardless of effect, that are not X is wrong?

Seems to me the times you're pointing out Joe Louis is winning. It's Godoy would seems uncomfortable with leaving the clinch, Godoy looking for an opportunity, and Godoy eating bigger shots.


Seems really nitpicky. Let me set my hand a few inches from your head, you can get as low as you like, you'll get smacked first, and hey, what do we see? Godoy gets smacked first.

6:20 Godoy lands a good one...after, not before, being jabbed right in his face. Probably if he didn't have to eat a jab he'd've landed better.

So when watching, there appears to be a vocal contingent for Godoy, and despite Godoy not landing a whole lot, it can appear he is besting Louis in the clinches... Two problems are:

1) turning the sound off and one can better notice that godoy is not landing much.

2) Louis is comfortable fighting in the corner for a reason... he is connecting. It gets more evident as the fight proceeds.