is Golovkin a top all time 15 great at middleweight?

[Dr. Z]

The middleweight division, without a, doubt one of the four most essential divisions in boxing.

Ranking the best in division history is no easy task, partly because the rich history dates back to the 1840's, and many of the best matches were never filmed or have become lost films.

Generally speaking, most historians or serious fans would place the names Gerb, Robinson, Hagler, Monzon, Walker, and Fitzsimmons in their top ten, and all would make the top 15. I'm not going to argue these six men don't belong. Instead, I will at times use them as a benchmark to show why Golovkin belongs in the top 15 in the history of the division. After all, if they are a consensus of the top ten, and Golovkin compares favorably or equal in many areas, he most certainly belongs.


Professional Ring Record 41-1-1***. 83.72% KO ratio. He should be un-defeated. World Title belts held. WBA, WBC, and IBF.

Key take aways

1 ) Golovkin won all three major belts, away some define the real champion in modern times hamstrung by politics. Such a feat is rare.

2 ) Golovkin, at age 38 is still excellent. He's beating ranked contenders well past his prime when they were in their prime. This separates Golovkin from the pack of history.

3 ) A record 21 successful title defenses. #1 all time.



21 title defenses is more than Hopkins ( 20 ). Ring legends like Monzon and Hagler have 14, and 12 respectively. Golovkin is in elite company. Once again he separates himself from the pack of history. I'd argue anyone that 21 title defenses should be shortlisted for the top 15.


Style and skills

Without a doubt Golovkin is a swarming attacker with rare power, who can target the head or the body, but his style and power alone do not define him. In my opinion, he's got one of the top jabs in the history of the division. His power rates as no worse than 3rd best of all time ( 83.7%KO ratio ) and he also has one of the top chins, as he was never floored in 42 professional matches...or ever floored in 350 amateur matches. This unheard of for any division. This is a total of 388 matches with never being knocked down. Amazing.

He can win by outboxing and landing with his jab, with his power, or by slugging. The chances of knocking him out in 388 boxing matches is a statistical zero. Never behind on the scorecards in any fight, except for the bogus Canelo decision loss.

Winning his best matches past his prime.

Among the greats, one has to ask when did they retire? Gerb was only 32, he died young, but was slowing at this age. Hagler, just 32. Walker and Mozon, age 34. By retiring when they did, each man prevented further losses. The interesting point here is Golovkin, won key matches past his prime at age 34-35, vs. style matchup that past their prime boxers have the most trouble against. That is speedy/defensive fighters. He contiunes to look good at age 38.

Golovkin defeated the following men at 34-35

Wade, who as undefeated at age 26
Brook, who was undefeated at age 30.
Jacobs, who was 34-1 at age 30

And the following contenders at 37-38

Derevyanchenko age 33
Szeremeta age 31

What we have here is rare, an older champion defeating much young raked opponents in their prime. Only the true greats can do this.

GGG did not officially defeat Canelo, three judges, one of them crooked beyond belief called a draw. The majority of media scorecards correctly had GGG as the winner, and it appears Canelo who refused to weigh in the night of the fight, was on PED's.

In the amateurs, Golovkin defeated name professionals such as Matvey Korobov (RUS) 19:10, Andy Lee (29:9), Lucian Bute (stoppage).


Pound for pound status.

The pinnacle any boxer can hope for. Golvokin is currently #1 in Ring ****zine pound for pound ratings. Ring ****zine ratings, though not 100% perfect are boxing best ratings. How many former middleweight champions have been #1 pound for pound, a term coined for Sugar Ray Robison? VERY FEW. Anyone want to count?


Quality of opposition beaten.

This is the one area where critics have a point, but to be fair, it's not like Golovkin had a chance to fight other hall of fame fighters. Mayweather would never fight him, not even if the IRS was after him and his net worth was zero. Nor world Cotto, who would have undoubtedly been knocked out. Pac? Forget it he knew better. I also feel Martinez, wanted no part of GGG either. Canelo soiled the re-match by testing positive. GGG was avoided and unlucky.

But I did a count of fighters Golovkin defeated that was ring ****zine annually ranked. I do not have access to monthly rankings so this number could be higher.

Geale ( KO WIN )
Murray ( KO WIN )
Lemieux ( KO WIN )
Jacobs ( Points Win )
Rubio ( KO WIN )
Macklin ( KO WIN )
Stevens ( KO WIN )
Canelo ( Bogus Draw )
Canelo ( Bogus points loss )
Derevyanchenko ( Points win )
Szeremeta ( KO WIN )

So GGG here is officially 9-1-1 but should be 11-0.

Now for the closing. While Golovkin's opponents beaten doesn't stand out, he blew many of them away and edged others past his prime. He should be undefeated. Did other top ten all time greats lost to lesser fighters than GGG fought? Absolutely! How about some examples? Read on...

Hagler lost to Monroe and Watts. Hagler also drew with Antuofermo. I think Jacobs and Canelo are equal to or better than the opponents Hagler lost to or drew with.

Monzon lost to Aguilar, Cambeiro, Massi who was only 2-0 and drew NINE times. I think Jacobs and Canelo are equal to or better then the guys Monzon lost to or drew with

Greb lost to some guys you probably never heard of! Bartfield, Chip, Graves, Borrell, Keiser, Graves ( TKO Loss ), I'll skip the numerous draws and his first 20 bouts. I think Jacobs and Canelo are equal to or better then the guys Greb lost to or drew with.

Walker lost to Delmont making his debut ( KO Loss ), Smith, making his debut ( KO Loss ), Gradwell, S. O'Brien twice, Pitts, Shade, Bogash, Ward, Nelson, Malone, Latzo, and Dundee. I'll skip the four draws and name losses. I think Jacobs and Canelo are equal to or better than the guys Walker, lost to or drew with.

Looking back, its hard to imagine if video and web were around back then, 'cause modern fans would rip them to pieces.

Yes--I do think GGG is a top 15 all time middleweight and should be a first ballot HOF guy.

[Anthony342]

Wasn't undisputed or lineal though, which means he was never "the guy" Should've been after at least 1 of those Alvarez fights. Will probably have to follow Canelo to another weight class and KO him. So I don't know where he ranks, but he looks damn good to me.

[Citizen Koba]

I kinda tend to think around that... 15 to 20 level, his lack of a defining elite win hurts his chances I think, but you'll find Hopkins ranked top 10 on many lists (just as a MW that is) which would have me thinking GGG really shouldn't be that far lower when in fact their MW reigns are broadly comparable. If he'd got the official nod over Canelo even once I'd say he'd be a top 15 maybe even top 10 lock given Canelos subsequent accomplishments and trajectory, but the record books ain't always kind.

Ultimately time needs to pass for this kinda judgement to be made though, leave the judgement of current fighters to the historians of the future is the best advice I reckon.

[joseph5620]

The middleweight division, without a, doubt one of the four most essential divisions in boxing.

Ranking the best in division history is no easy task, partly because the rich history dates back to the 1840's, and many of the best matches were never filmed or have become lost films.

Generally speaking, most historians or serious fans would place the names Gerb, Robinson, Hagler, Monzon, Walker, and Fitzsimmons in their top ten, and all would make the top 15. I'm not going to argue these six men don't belong. Instead, I will at times use them as a benchmark to show why Golovkin belongs in the top 15 in the history of the division. After all, if they are a consensus of the top ten, and Golovkin compares favorably or equal in many areas, he most certainly belongs.


Professional Ring Record 41-1-1***. 83.72% KO ratio. He should be un-defeated. World Title belts held. WBA, WBC, and IBF.

Key take aways

1 ) Golovkin won all three major belts, away some define the real champion in modern times hamstrung by politics. Such a feat is rare.

2 ) Golovkin, at age 38 is still excellent. He's beating ranked contenders well past his prime when they were in their prime. This separates Golovkin from the pack of history.

3 ) A record 21 successful title defenses. #1 all time.



21 title defenses is more than Hopkins ( 20 ). Ring legends like Monzon and Hagler have 14, and 12 respectively. Golovkin is in elite company. Once again he separates himself from the pack of history. I'd argue anyone that 21 title defenses should be shortlisted for the top 15.


Style and skills

Without a doubt Golovkin is a swarming attacker with rare power, who can target the head or the body, but his style and power alone do not define him. In my opinion, he's got one of the top jabs in the history of the division. His power rates as no worse than 3rd best of all time ( 83.7%KO ratio ) and he also has one of the top chins, as he was never floored in 42 professional matches...or ever floored in 350 amateur matches. This unheard of for any division. This is a total of 388 matches with never being knocked down. Amazing.

He can win by outboxing and landing with his jab, with his power, or by slugging. The chances of knocking him out in 388 boxing matches is a statistical zero. Never behind on the scorecards in any fight, except for the bogus Canelo decision loss.

Winning his best matches past his prime.

Among the greats, one has to ask when did they retire? Gerb was only 32, he died young, but was slowing at this age. Hagler, just 32. Walker and Mozon, age 34. By retiring when they did, each man prevented further losses. The interesting point here is Golovkin, won key matches past his prime at age 34-35, vs. style matchup that past their prime boxers have the most trouble against. That is speedy/defensive fighters. He contiunes to look good at age 38.

Golovkin defeated the following men at 34-35

Wade, who as undefeated at age 26
Brook, who was undefeated at age 30.
Jacobs, who was 34-1 at age 30

And the following contenders at 37-38

Derevyanchenko age 33
Szeremeta age 31

What we have here is rare, an older champion defeating much young raked opponents in their prime. Only the true greats can do this.

GGG did not officially defeat Canelo, three judges, one of them crooked beyond belief called a draw. The majority of media scorecards correctly had GGG as the winner, and it appears Canelo who refused to weigh in the night of the fight, was on PED's.

In the amateurs, Golovkin defeated name professionals such as Matvey Korobov (RUS) 19:10, Andy Lee (29:9), Lucian Bute (stoppage).


Pound for pound status.

The pinnacle any boxer can hope for. Golvokin is currently #1 in Ring ****zine pound for pound ratings. Ring ****zine ratings, though not 100% perfect are boxing best ratings. How many former middleweight champions have been #1 pound for pound, a term coined for Sugar Ray Robison? VERY FEW. Anyone want to count?


Quality of opposition beaten.

This is the one area where critics have a point, but to be fair, it's not like Golovkin had a chance to fight other hall of fame fighters. Mayweather would never fight him, not even if the IRS was after him and his net worth was zero. Nor world Cotto, who would have undoubtedly been knocked out. Pac? Forget it he knew better. I also feel Martinez, wanted no part of GGG either. Canelo soiled the re-match by testing positive. GGG was avoided and unlucky.

But I did a count of fighters Golovkin defeated that was ring ****zine annually ranked. I do not have access to monthly rankings so this number could be higher.

Geale ( KO WIN )
Murray ( KO WIN )
Lemieux ( KO WIN )
Jacobs ( Points Win )
Rubio ( KO WIN )
Macklin ( KO WIN )
Stevens ( KO WIN )
Canelo ( Bogus Draw )
Canelo ( Bogus points loss )
Derevyanchenko ( Points win )
Szeremeta ( KO WIN )

So GGG here is officially 9-1-1 but should be 11-0.

Now for the closing. While Golovkin's opponents beaten doesn't stand out, he blew many of them away and edged others past his prime. He should be undefeated. Did other top ten all time greats lost to lesser fighters than GGG fought? Absolutely! How about some examples? Read on...

Hagler lost to Monroe and Watts. Hagler also drew with Antuofermo. I think Jacobs and Canelo are equal to or better than the opponents Hagler lost to or drew with.

Monzon lost to Aguilar, Cambeiro, Massi who was only 2-0 and drew NINE times. I think Jacobs and Canelo are equal to or better then the guys Monzon lost to or drew with

Greb lost to some guys you probably never heard of! Bartfield, Chip, Graves, Borrell, Keiser, Graves ( TKO Loss ), I'll skip the numerous draws and his first 20 bouts. I think Jacobs and Canelo are equal to or better then the guys Greb lost to or drew with.

Walker lost to Delmont making his debut ( KO Loss ), Smith, making his debut ( KO Loss ), Gradwell, S. O'Brien twice, Pitts, Shade, Bogash, Ward, Nelson, Malone, Latzo, and Dundee. I'll skip the four draws and name losses. I think Jacobs and Canelo are equal to or better than the guys Walker, lost to or drew with.

Looking back, its hard to imagine if video and web were around back then, 'cause modern fans would rip them to pieces.

Yes--I do think GGG is a top 15 all time middleweight and should be a first ballot HOF guy.

Anybody who actually watched those fights knows that Hagler was robbed in both. He also removed all doubt in rematches. You can't claim Golovkin beat Canelo twice while ignoring the context in two of Haglers controversial fights and be taken seriously. Those two Hagler fights were more clear for Hagler winning than it was for Golovkin beating Canelo.

[DeeMoney]

I would argue you are asking this at the worst possible time. GGG is now in the 'kick 'em while they are down' stage of his career. Past his prime and everyone is piling on to now point out how bad he is; I've seen this happen with other guys when they reach this part of their career.

As Citizen Koba posted above, "Ultimately time needs to pass for this kinda judgement to be made though, leave the judgement of current fighters to the historians of the future is the best advice I reckon." Which is fair because as we move farther away from his career the bias will weaken.

That being written, there seems to be two schools of thought when it comes to evaluating greatness- 1) how good were they in the ring or 2) how good is their resume.

Based on that second criteria- he probably comes up short. Although if you take the debacle of the first Canelo fight into account: he was the victim of a Spilt Draw that most had him winning and the only judge to score against him was suspended for doing so. Moreover his opponent would later test positive for PEDs. Things start to look a little better. When you taken into account the whole 'marinating the fight' and waiting until he was in his late 30s it adds up. But probably not enough to make the top 15.

If you add his title defense streak in there then maybe he makes it in, if you give him more credit for longevity in the division then that could help too. Would you rank guys like SRL and Hearns ahead of him at MW, who were better pound for pound but did more of their work in another division?

As far as how he looked, the first criteria, I think he is in that 10-15 range (especially if we just take into account fighters who fought the majority of their career at MW). He was a fighter who had holes in his game, but what he did do he did extremely well.

[The D3vil]

I think it's pretty obvious he is.

I'd only definitively put

Robinson
Greb
Monzon
Hagler
Lamotta
Cerdan
Ketchel
Burley

ahead of him.

So, I'd say a top 10-15 all-time middleweight.

[QueensburyRules]

- - Lotta blah, blah.

Who was the judge suspended in the Canelo fight?

Canelo and Golovkin two of my favs for this era, and like Arguello and Pryor, I hate to see my favs fight, nor do I see a problem with the results. Let's face it, Golovkin and Canelo were widely hated from their American debuts forward, hence the PED accusations and record streak nonsense.

Neither never melted into jello howling like a kicked cur Poppy made a habit of and Canelo the first 4 division Mexican champ and seemingly just hitting his stride.

Seemingly being he has his own private luxury jet and yacht whose upkeep costs 10x the budget of 10 average Mexican villages.

In summary, both competitive with Hagler, just under Monzon, and well over Poppy.

[Dr. Z]

Wasn't undisputed or lineal though, which means he was never "the guy" Should've been after at least 1 of those Alvarez fights. Will probably have to follow Canelo to another weight class and KO him. So I don't know where he ranks, but he looks damn good to me.

Half the time lineal means a fighter got old and lost. On this case Martinez did not want to fight GGG, he was the lineal champion, He got old and lost it to Cotto, who was by no means a great Lineal Middle Weight Champion.

I'll take #1 pound for pound over lineal.

[DeeMoney]

- - Lotta blah, blah.

Who was the judge suspended in the Canelo fight?

Canelo and Golovkin two of my favs for this era, and like Arguello and Pryor, I hate to see my favs fight, nor do I see a problem with the results. Let's face it, Golovkin and Canelo were widely hated from their American debuts forward, hence the PED accusations and record streak nonsense.

Neither never melted into jello howling like a kicked cur Poppy made a habit of and Canelo the first 4 division Mexican champ and seemingly just hitting his stride.

Seemingly being he has his own private luxury jet and yacht whose upkeep costs 10x the budget of 10 average Mexican villages.

In summary, both competitive with Hagler, just under Monzon, and well over Poppy.

Byrd, she was temporarily relieved of duties....though the NSAC retroactively said she was just taking time off, and allowed her to comeback.

[Dr. Z]

Anybody who actually watched those fights knows that Hagler was robbed in both. He also removed all doubt in rematches. You can't claim Golovkin beat Canelo twice while ignoring the context in two of Haglers controversial fights and be taken seriously. Those two Hagler fights were more clear for Hagler winning than it was for Golovkin beating Canelo.

Hagler clearly lost to Monroe. No issues there. I did not see the Watts fight. The draw with Vito was close, I think Hagler edged it.

My point is past middleweight greats retired young, avoiding losses and when they did lose or draw they were vs lesser men than Canelo, who GGG beat on fair scorecards. That point stands.

GGG out landed Canelo in 10 of 12 rounds.