Jack Dempsey's Refusal to Fight Joe Jeanette

[travestyny]

The conversation is taking up too much of Marchegiano's thread so I decided to make the topic.


So the story goes, Dempsey agreed to fight ANY heavyweight boxer that the manager of a charity event chose for him 4 days out of the event. Three days out, he found out his opponent would be Joe Bonds.

Bonds apparently gets sick the night of the fight, Joe Jeanette's opponent Kid Norfolk also is unable to go (don't know why), and so Dempsey is match with Jeanette for 4 (or 6) rounds in an exhibition at MSG.

Dempsey refuses to fight Jeanette, and says he will fight ANY TWO WHITE heavyweights instead. The crowd goes into an uproar and boos Dempsey, calling him a bum, coward, yellow dog, etc. They cheer Jeanette who is back and forth between sitting down and approaching Dempsey ordering him to fight.

Dempsey's manager steps in and says he will only allow Dempsey to fight Joe Bonds. The crowd is none too happy as Dempsey leaves the ring.

[travestyny]

Yes but qualified. If it is a philosophical racism it would bother me to no end and I would be sorely disappointed in Dempsey if I thought that was his reasoning with Wills. I do not believe it was.

If, on the other hand, it occurs as a product of de facto racism, I can understand why a Champion (of any color) would want to avoid a tougher fight for less money. The racism lies in the fact that Black fighters put less asses in the seats (and the fights sometimes caused controversy) simply because the fighter was Black. -- I would still see this as a wrong but would have some understanding as to why that particular fighter made the 'wrong' decision he made.

A good example of this latter type of systemic racism is Henry Armstrong choosing Zivic over Burley. Armstrong and Zivic packed MSG in back to back fights. Chances are an Armstrong-Burley fight doesn't.

Certainly Armstrong's decision isn't philosophical, but it was likely, in part, a decision grown out of the de facto realities of a racist society.

For the Record: At that time Armstrong was ducking the #1 contender SRR; Burley and Zivic had a trilogy and it came out in Burley's favor 2-1.

I would argue that Armstrong ducked Burley by taking on Zivic, and that the decision to do so, was partly effected by the racial realities of the day.

Those crowds, at that time in New York, were overwhelmingly 'Ellis Island' people and they wanted to see their own guys fight.

Possibly the same thing happened with Zale and Holman Williams.

Ok, I need some clarification.

Why would Dempsey's actions here speak of a response to "de facto racism." Putting butts in seats is not relevant here. The crowd wanted the fight to go on to the point that they booed Dempsey relentlessly. Four days out he was prepared for ANYONE. After being spooked by Jeanette, seems he thought the prospect fo fighting ANY TWO white heavyweights would be less strenuous.

So if this indeed was racial (which I believe it was and I think it would be easy to prove), then exactly what would be the excuse for it? I have my own theory, but I'd love to hear yours.

[Dip_Slide]

It was probably racist but so were most people in the 1920s. Not being a racist was almost the exception to the rule so what's the point here? Different times, different people, different world.

[Willie Pep 229]

Ok, I need some clarification.

Why would Dempsey's actions here speak of a response to "de facto racism." Putting butts in seats is not relevant here. The crowd wanted the fight to go on to the point that they booed Dempsey relentlessly. Four days out he was prepared for ANYONE. After being spooked by Jeanette, seems he thought the prospect fo fighting ANY TWO white heavyweights would be less strenuous.

So if this indeed was racial (which I believe it was and I think it would be easy to prove), then exactly what would be the excuse for it? I have my own theory, but I'd love to hear yours.

I can't believe you brought that back up again. Talking to you is like spitting into a hurricane, there really is no point in answering your questions.

[travestyny]

I can't believe you brought that back up again. Talking to you is like spitting into a hurricane, there really is no point in answering your questions.

You're upset that I brought up the crowd booing? Really?


Well, the crowd booed him. That's literally what happened. No idea why that makes you upset that I'm telling exactly what happened. Are you upset with all the newspapers, too, that reported that he was booed?


Or maybe I should just say, "That's a duck," since when you thought I wasn't going to answer your question that's what you accused me of. But when I do answer and return questions, you no longer want to talk about it. Ok

[travestyny]

It was probably racist but so were most people in the 1920s. Not being a racist was almost the exception to the rule so what's the point here? Different times, different people, different world.

I actually don't think it was racism, per se. I don't think Dempsey decided no to fight him because he dislikes blacks. Personally, I think it was more about what losing to a black fighter could do to his legacy.

[QueensburyRules]

The conversation is taking up too much of Marchegiano's thread so I decided to make the topic.


So the story goes, Dempsey agreed to fight ANY heavyweight boxer that the manager of a charity event chose for him 4 days out of the event. Three days out, he found out his opponent would be Joe Bonds.

Bonds apparently gets sick the night of the fight, Joe Jeanette's opponent Kid Norfolk also is unable to go (don't know why), and so Dempsey is match with Jeanette for 4 (or 6) rounds in an exhibition at MSG.

Dempsey refuses to fight Jeanette, and says he will fight ANY TWO WHITE heavyweights instead. The crowd goes into an uproar and boos Dempsey, calling him a bum, coward, yellow dog, etc. They cheer Jeanette who is back and forth between sitting down and approaching Dempsey ordering him to fight.

Dempsey's manager steps in and says he will only allow Dempsey to fight Joe Bonds. The crowd is none too happy as Dempsey leaves the ring.

- -NEWSFLASH: A dolt asks why boxing dirty?

Dempsey sat in his corner waiting for the livid Kearns to sort it out with the "Milk Fund" officials.

Kearns told them where they could shove their Milk Fund...The End...

When U making the move from Barney BigBoys to Harry Potter Wizzes?

[travestyny]

- -NEWSFLASH: A dolt asks why boxing dirty?

Dempsey sat in his corner waiting for the livid Kearns to sort it out with the "Milk Fund" officials.

Kearns told them where they could shove their Milk Fund...The End...

When U making the move from Barney BigBoys to Harry Potter Wizzes?

I'm sure Kearns did tell him where they can shove their "Milk Fund,"

After Joe Jeanette scared Dempsey out of the ring.


How did that 1920 offer turn out for you, Queenie

I feel sorry for you. I thought you were just trolling, but it turns out you really thought you had something important. This is why you should be sure to keep up with your meds.

[QueensburyRules]

I actually don't think it was racism, per se. I don't think Dempsey decided no to fight him because he dislikes blacks. Personally, I think it was more about what losing to a black fighter could do to his legacy.

- -They was due a title shot vs Willard and taking the same road Big George took 50 yrs later.

**** Sadler was mentored by Doc Kearns, but why we always gotta purée U steak 4 U.

U lost U toofs like Leffy? U his alt?

Could U punch U way outta bag o Popkorn?

[travestyny]

- -They was due a title shot vs Willard and taking the same road Big George took 50 yrs later.

**** Sadler was mentored by Doc Kearns, but why we always gotta purée U steak 4 U.

U lost U toofs like Leffy? U his alt?

Could U punch U way outta bag o Popkorn?

Who's "They."


Do you mean Dempsey? I guess he believed a loss in an exhibition to a white guy or two wouldn't be as devastating to his championship plans as a loss to a black man.

Kind of speaks to my point, huh?