Were Patterson and Ingo the worst heavyweight champs ever ?

[QueensburyRules]

Exactly which boxing basics did Carnera and Valuev have that Ali lacked?

- -Footwork that kept them in the pocket, consistent LHk and uppercuts, and consistent fighting activity instead of running or ropadoping.

And no mouthing off. Takes discipline to respect the sport and other fighters, a self control Ali lacked.

[Ben Bolt]

And no mouthing off. Takes discipline to respect the sport and other fighters

A typical weigh-in of yesterday. And whoever you cheer for as a spectator, it makes you respect both guys.

[Ben Bolt]

Did the staredown start with Liston?
It is often described how his ‘evil glare’ towards opponents at the weigh-ins gave him an huge advantage before his fights. His opponents froze.

As Ali once described it, his camp before the ’64 fight was well aware of Liston’s antics and wanted to nullify it. What they come up with was, that a lunatic wouldn’t be affected by Liston’s staring, and a lunatic would also have Liston feel uncomfortable. So Clay played the role of a maniacal at their weigh-in (and he acted so well that even the medic at place wanted to cancel the fight).

[The Old LefHook]

You don't think Patterson could have been champ in the 1890s?

I would certainly pick him to beat Corbett - and the version of Sullivan he defeated.

And in the 1900s I think he would be too good for both Hart and Burns.

Fantastic change of perspective. Might it then have been Patterson rather than Langford who became the darling of Fleischer in the AT rankings?

But again we must set our parameters so we know what the heck we are talking about? Which Patterson? The one who was born in that ancient era and trained only under its methods, or the one who is magically transported in our imaginations back to that era to fight its champions and contenders, having been fully trained by Cus?

Sorry if anyone else already addressed this. I have not read beyond your post yet.

[JAB5239]

- -Footwork that kept them in the pocket, consistent LHk and uppercuts, and consistent fighting activity instead of running or ropadoping.

And no mouthing off. Takes discipline to respect the sport and other fighters, a self control Ali lacked.

Basics are a funny thing. They look great on a fighter without exceptional skills and ability. But would Ali really have been as great if he fought conventionally and with basics? I highly doubt it. Ali was great because of exceptional athleticism and will. He revolutionized the sport, which is why so many fighters have tried to emulate him. As far as mouthing off.......it really has nothing to do with what goes on in the ring.

[QueensburyRules]

Basics are a funny thing. They look great on a fighter without exceptional skills and ability. But would Ali really have been as great if he fought conventionally and with basics? I highly doubt it. Ali was great because of exceptional athleticism and will. He revolutionized the sport, which is why so many fighters have tried to emulate him. As far as mouthing off.......it really has nothing to do with what goes on in the ring.

- -Agree with your essential Pts about Ali's singular physical attributes and his unique mentality, but I would add Corbett and Tunney employed fleet defensive feet and weren't exactly short of talent.

More interesting was Ali was taught the basics, but like Frankie crooned, "I did it my way."

Ali did revolutionize promos by bringing the theatre of pro 'rasslin' into mainstream boxing with fake prefight stunts and brawls.

[smeck]

Ali did revolutionize promos by bringing the theatre of pro 'rasslin' into mainstream boxing with fake prefight stunts and brawls.

I liked Ali's honesty in admitting he was influenced by Gorgeous George.

Then again, "I'm so pretty" is not something you'd expect to hear from Carnera or Valuev.

[Anthony342]

I liked Ali's honesty in admitting he was influenced by Gorgeous George.

Then again, "I'm so pretty" is not something you'd expect to hear from Carnera or Valuev.

Yeah, a modern pro wrestling or "sports entertainment" fan would say that Ali had great microphone or "mic" skills. Most of the top pro wrestling stars are pushed by promoters because of their ability to cut a good promo and Muhammad Ali always knew how to cut a good promo. Sugar Ray Leonard I liked too. I didn't even mind Mayweather, even though he bothered a lot of people. They say a good promo can "talk the fans into the arena" although often in boxing, a good promoter can do that most of the time or the quality of a fight can sell itself as well.

Mic skills have gotten so important in wrestling because now weekly shows devote so much of their TV time to in ring promos to go along with their backstage interviews. Interview segments are still fun, but Piper's Pit is still the GOAT. A Moment of Bliss comes close these days though and the Miz is pretty good now. With so much more talking, it amazes me that you almost never see a wrestling manager anymore. I miss guys like Jim Cornette, Bobby The Brain Heenan or The Grand Wizard, I tell ya. At least Paul Heyman is still around, but we need some more of them.

[sleazyfellow]

Patterson was a pretty good champ, I don't get it. He's the last of the smaller heavyweight champions before monsters like Liston, Ali and Foreman moved in. First heavyweight to ever regain the title as well as youngest undisputed heavyweight champion. Ingamar was not great but hey he won it being a 1 handed fighter really. His left was not even decent.

[DreamFighter]

I'd say Valuev was one of the worst.