Most Overrated Fighters of All-Time

[BKM-]

Heavyweight division is a overrated sh.it

Nope, you just suffer from small man syndrome. You probably rank midgets highly when they don't belong.

[mikehdaddy]

BUT.....I don't believe that bs for a minute about rds where he supposedly didn't even land a punch. I can surely count on 1 hand how often thats ever happened EVER in boxing history that a fighter didn't land 1 punch. So I don't believe for 1 min that Ali one of the atg's did that not once but often. Thats some BS

I don’t own the book so I am going by my memory of an interview with the authors, conducted by the HBO Boxing podcast. But here is some more information from the book.



“Ali absorbed a higher percentage of his opponents’ power punches than many would have thought, even during his best years, Groves said.”

“In the title fights in Ali’s later years, Ali’s opponents dished out more than Ali, “but because of the conventional wisdom of the time they were reluctant to dethrone a reigning champion by decision,” Groves said.”



"Watching Ali in the past, my eye had always been drawn to his magnetism. Here, I had to watch the opponents. And I was shocked at how often the opponents penetrated Ali's defense. Ali fancied himself an amateur magician. And in the ring, he pulled off his greatest illusion. He was able to erase the memory of his getting hit by not showing it in his facial expression and immediately striking back. Knowing how often Ali got hit, even when he was young, was surprising to me."

[Rusty Tromboni]

Calzaghe


Monzón

Why Monzon? The dude fought until he was 38, and we might have never really seen him at his best. Obviously, if he had move up to Light Heavyweight we could have been him better tested. But at his natural weight, he was in a class of his own.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Nope, you just suffer from small man syndrome. You probably rank midgets highly when they don't belong.

You've hit the nail on the head.


I think there's a tendency to use P4P listings to compensate lower weight fighters who tend to go over-looked at the expense of Heavyweights. I can understand the desire, but it's dishonest. And most of those folks aren't even that consistent in their application.

I think very highly of the lower weight fighters. Very highly. But I also know how difficult it is for the big men. A guy like Holyfield would look a helluva lot like Ray Leonard if he were a natural Welterweight... a dumber, softer-punching Ray Leonard, but much better than most men who've held the 147 pound championship that Boxing fans love sooo much. Conversely, I have to wonder, how a 190 pound version of Carmen Basilio would have done if he came of age in Holyfield's era?

When Arguello and Williams struggled enough w/ movers, weighing the same size as most kids in High School. How would they have fared if they were Heavyweights schlepping around 70 extra pounds? Would Zarate have been any better than Bowe? Would Saddler have been able to keep up the intensity that Foreman brought right out of the gate?

Again, I have wrestled, so I appreciate what guys at the lower weight classes can do. But I understand how the laws of physics apply to the human body... coordination and stamina drop off drastically as weight is increased even only moderately. That's why you see midgets as Olympic Gymnasts, but you don't see Olympic Gymnasts making the money that NFL Linemen or NBA stars make.

Sorry for another tangent. But you brought up a great point that needed to be made.

[ShoulderRoll]

I'd rather see "midgets" like Crawford, Lomachenko or Juan Francisco Estrada perform their craft than heavyweights like Tyson Fury or Deontay Wilder.

It is what it is.

[Blue54]

- -Well, those fighters were the champs all fighting each other.

Guess you didn't like Rock winning the title the old fashioned way of the Man beating the Man.

Go figure modern boxing fans cause nobody else can.

I give him credit he belongs top 10 heavy of all time but he does deserve top or top 20 p4p of all time with his weak skills and non technical abilitys he was just a power puncher with a granite chin good stamina and heart.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I still see Joe Louis ranked top 5 or even top 3 ever pound for pound. That is criminally overrated as far as I'm concerned.

Many people do so out of respect or fear, but it's ridiculous to try to justify that when you've got certain ATG's across weightclasses.

I see Ali mentioned several times here. The man fought 7 HW's that could be ranked top 10(or top 20 for Norton, and Patterson was past his prime) HW's ever and beat most of them at their best. Most HW's are lucky to have one win over an ATG HW. Ali has a resume of Patterson, Liston 2x, Frazier 2x, Quarry 2x, Norton 2x, Foreman, Young, Lyle etc. Many title defenses, 3 time HW champ, did most of this after a long layoff that ruined his physical prime. This is a ridiculously stacked resume and list of accomplishments, truly a case of "too good to be true" and that's why people try to discredit him. He's the only HW that can easily be in the mix with the best pound for pound boxers ever.

well said, but there's two problems w/ Ali that are chronically ignored:
1) It's always zero sum:
A) In the 60's he was in his prime, but his shoddy opposition is down played; while in the 70's he was post-prime and his greater opposition is discredited.
B) Ali lost to Frazier and Norton. Forget about best P4P, he often wasn't even the best of his division. Foreman destroyed both Norton and Frazier, so when Ali didn't just whoop Foreman's ass, but derailed his entire career, he sort of got more vindication than he really deserved.

Pretty simply, even true fans exaggerate Ali's dominance. He had many contemporaries who much better asserted their dominance over their respective divisions: Ortiz, Canton, Foster, Monzon, Olivares... look, I didn't even say the "D" word.

Which brings me to my second point:

2) Muhammad Ali was a stellar athlete w/ a stellar record. He also had the heart of a lion. And he brought the Heavyweight division up to speed w/ the rest of Boxing. Definitely the makings of a top 50-25 Boxer.

But you only need look at the film to see better fighters. Was Ali more of a Heavyweight Duran or a Heavyweight Camacho? That might seem hugely disrespectful considering what a twaat Camacho was, but even w/ the iron jaw and heart of a lion, Ali was closer in skill and ability to Hector Camacho than the best the Lightweight division has produced.

I think people take it too hard on Heavyweights:

- They expect them to fight just like Finito Lopez.

- They don't understand the parity that comes w/ punching power of a man that size.

- And they don't understand that men that size take a little longer to mature physically, so their careers are often more of a work in progress.


But with Ali, the best fighter he fought in the 60's was George Chuvalo. When he returned in the 70's he was often NOT the Division's best. And even on his best night, it's not hard to find 20 fighters who did it better.

[Mexican_Puppet]

Nope, you just suffer from small man syndrome. You probably rank midgets highly when they don't belong.

They have better skills, i'm not midget, but this is.boxing, not a height or weight contest.

Most heavyweight are overrated talking about skills

[Mexican_Puppet]

Why Monzon? The dude fought until he was 38, and we might have never really seen him at his best. Obviously, if he had move up to Light Heavyweight we could have been him better tested. But at his natural weight, he was in a class of his own.

I know.he was very good but his opposition was poor, he fought with guys like Briscoe, Benvenutti, Griffith, most of them clearly out of prime and olds, and smaller than him, Nápoles too, it was a crime, what Nápoles did, Monzón never wanted to do, that fight was a joke, i know Nápoles challenged him but it does not matter. Only fought in a division, took little risks.

[Mexican_Puppet]

You've hit the nail on the head.


I think there's a tendency to use P4P listings to compensate lower weight fighters who tend to go over-looked at the expense of Heavyweights. I can understand the desire, but it's dishonest. And most of those folks aren't even that consistent in their application.

I think very highly of the lower weight fighters. Very highly. But I also know how difficult it is for the big men. A guy like Holyfield would look a helluva lot like Ray Leonard if he were a natural Welterweight... a dumber, softer-punching Ray Leonard, but much better than most men who've held the 147 pound championship that Boxing fans love sooo much. Conversely, I have to wonder, how a 190 pound version of Carmen Basilio would have done if he came of age in Holyfield's era?

When Arguello and Williams struggled enough w/ movers, weighing the same size as most kids in High School. How would they have fared if they were Heavyweights schlepping around 70 extra pounds? Would Zarate have been any better than Bowe? Would Saddler have been able to keep up the intensity that Foreman brought right out of the gate?

Again, I have wrestled, so I appreciate what guys at the lower weight classes can do. But I understand how the laws of physics apply to the human body... coordination and stamina drop off drastically as weight is increased even only moderately. That's why you see midgets as Olympic Gymnasts, but you don't see Olympic Gymnasts making the money that NFL Linemen or NBA stars make.

Sorry for another tangent. But you brought up a great point that needed to be made.

This is false

You can't Say this, the bones of lighter weights are the reason why they are much more technical, skillfuls , fasters, dinamycs.

You can't Say "add 60 pounds to the body of Arguello".

It's what it's , period.

Heavyweight are overrated and are sh.it talking about boxing skills.

I mean, you hear "this heavyweight was a máster, and incredible technical fighter" and then you see his movements and are.pretty mediocre and normal.

Boxing is art, and the art is in the lightweights like Loma, Estrada, Pacquiao, Crawford,