What would be your top 10 welterweights of all time ?

[SheenLantern]

- -We ain't comparing next day Sugarplum, we're comparing career bests at welter.

Ray had a short prime at welter, 6-1 in title fights. In comparison Manny is 11-3, double that of Ray and did it while serving in Congress, something no fighter in any weight class has ever done.

Also playing/coaching pro basketball, making movies, singing, and so on and so forth.

This ain't it chief

[QueensburyRules]

Ray beat hearns at their peaks, end of story

- -Manny sent TUE 50-0 squalin' for his daddy for 6 years, better'n a Hail Mary TKO over Hearns who busted your sugar up good.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

- -Manny sent TUE 50-0 squalin' for his daddy for 6 years, better'n a Hail Mary TKO over Hearns who busted your sugar up good.

What? You just talking gibberish now.

Didn’t answer my question, the day after Leonard beat hearts, you still had hearns as #1 welter, yes or no?

[QueensburyRules]

- -You're asking a nonsensical question unrelated to the thread.

How many nanoseconds did you take to see Ray as #1, or alternately what's the biggest butterfly you ever caught?

[Dempsey19]

Hearns won the rematch though, it wasn't at welter but it wouldn't have made a difference

[QueensburyRules]

- -Oddly enough I scored that fight recently, and even though Ray lost all respect from his rehensible outta ring antics, I ended up with a draw. Tommy early like the first fight, but Ray late again.

I don't let my dislike for a fighter affect how I score a fight.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Hearns won the rematch though, it wasn't at welter but it wouldn't have made a difference

can we see your scorecard?


it was competitive. But Ray was the only one of those two men who could've passed a field sobriety test. tommy lucked out only having to fight 12 rounds. He was a dead man walking... well, staggering.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Spinks is one of most underrated fighters in P4P sense that I've ever come across. Don't know how he got on a list of overrated fighters. I know this type of thing is subjective but it appears obvious that he is rated properly as a LH (one of the best ever) and criminally underrated as a P4P fighter.

This is not just my opinion. There are a lot of knowledgeable boxing insiders with more experience than I have that share this feeling.

I have him top 50. But what about his LHw career stands out to you? Seriously, a very good fighter. But we've seen better Light Heavyeights. We have seen better men at/around that weight. But there are plenty of folks who exaggerate his LHw accomplishments, and almost everyone exaggerates his Heavyweight accomplishments.

Hard stuff to quantify, either way, I suppose.

[Dempsey19]

can we see your scorecard?


it was competitive. But Ray was the only one of those two men who could've passed a field sobriety test. tommy lucked out only having to fight 12 rounds. He was a dead man walking... well, staggering.

I haven’t made one, why would I have to when Ray himself said the decision should have gone to Tommy, Sugar Ray Leonard’s scoring is bound to more accurate than anything I could ever hope to create.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I haven’t made one, why would I have to when Ray himself said the decision should have gone to Tommy, Sugar Ray Leonard’s scoring is bound to more accurate than anything I could ever hope to create.

let's see the quote.

my brother's dentist's college roomate's gardener works with Ray's gardener. Apparently Ray rants daily about he whopped Tommy's ass worse the second time around.

But I don't put too much stock into it because I know fighters/trainers/promoters/journalists/fans misremember, misrepresent, forget, exaggerate and lie all the time. Usually they have a different story (about the same event) for each different venue they're the speaking to.

Take it from the most biased guy on this sub-forum: Rewatch the fight. With an open mind. Then we can talk.