What would be your top 10 welterweights of all time ?

[QueensburyRules]

- -23 yr old overtrained Hearns in his last fight in his beginner division ain't pinnacle.

So when are you gonna become a licensed plumber man?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Anyone feel Graham, not Gavilan was the best Ww, not named Ray Robinson, in that era?

[them_apples]

Duran was clearly well past his prime and well under-sized against Hearns and Hagler. There's no question that if they were Lightweight contenders in the 70s they would have been starched. You needed to be a spoiler like Buchanan to last the distance against focused Duran. Those guys really aren't in his realm. Hagler went life and death w/ Mugabe. His signature performance was what, dethroning Minter?

I often wonder what might have happened if Duran sought to unify against Hearns rather than rematch Leonard. He certainly would have arrived as focused OR MORE for that fight than he had for the first Leonard fight. No way we get the slob who only arrived to pick up his paycheck for the Ray Leonard Rematch. (I'm not sure he EVER took Leonard terribly seriously. He just realized too much was on the line to arrive to the first fight completely unraveled. Surely, considering the completeness of the first win and how recently it had transpired, he thought the rematch would go even easier). I'm not say Duran wins; I'm just saying it's a faaaar fairer fight than the fight we actually had to settle for - we should all feel cheated.

We gotta re-frame our view of Hearns: remember, he fought competitively at LHw. He was even winning fights at Cruiserweight. He was the biggest of all the 5 marquee rivals. While Hagler's win over Hearns was a huge achievement, I don't think it holds that much more weight than Pryor's win over Hearns back in the amateurs. You know if it were Hagler moving up to 175 to fight the Hearns who beat Virgil Hill the outcome would have been entirely different. I can't see Hagler getting his hand raised... hell, I might be surprise, but I wouldn't be shocked if Marvin didn't hear the final bell. Ray didn't have the size or power, but he had the skill.

Duran was fresh after going 15 with Hagler when nobody else could. He thought he was invincible. so going in against "smaller" Hearns at 154 he didn't even train, in fact his trainers didn't even want him to fight Hearns that night, considering how bad shape he was in. He fought a dumb fight and didn't take Hearns seriously.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Duran was fresh after going 15 with Hagler when nobody else could. He thought he was invincible. so going in against "smaller" Hearns at 154 he didn't even train, in fact his trainers didn't even want him to fight Hearns that night, considering how bad shape he was in. He fought a dumb fight and didn't take Hearns seriously.

And yet there's talk that Duran always showed Hearns a higher level of respect than he was known to show opponents. Some of that might be a mutual admiration. Some of it might be Duran simply knew Hearns to be a stylistic nightmare. Hell, it could even be apocryphal or fabricated.

I don't disagree w/ you. Not completely. It's typical of Duran to follow up epic performances w/ blunders. That doesn't change the fact that Duran would have always struggled w/ hearns. The hand speed, range, power, tactics... all bad for Duran. Especially at 154.

[Willow The Wisp]

Let me bump an old thread cuz' it's the hip thing to do.
Love the Welterweight division. A term dating at least to 1804, so sayeth the standard resources, with the first widely recognized Gloved world champion being the consumptive Paddy Duffy, claiming the crown whilst wearing the skin tights in 1888. You know, back in the days when the Welterweights were added, a Welterweight was considered an average size guy if trim and fit. Even today, the 135 -160 pound divisions attract the most fighters.
My list of all-time Greatest Welterweights for anyone who might care, as unlikely as that may be:

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Sugar Ray Leonard
3. Jose Napoles
4. Thomas Hearns
5. Barbados Joe Walcott
6. Ted Kid Lewis
7. Roberto Duran
8. Jack Britton
9. Mickey Walker
10. Barney Ross
11. Emile Griffith
12. Henry Armstrong
13. Julio Cesar Chavez
14. Dixie Kid
15. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
16. Luis Rodriguez
17. Harry Lewis
18. Manny Pacquiao
19. Kid Gavilan
20. Felix Trinidad
21. Jimmy McLarnin
22. Pernell Whitaker
23. Freddie Red Cochrane
24. Oscar De La Hoya
25. Donald Curry
26. Sugar Shane Mosley
27. Terrence Crawford
28. Marlon Starling
29. Carmen Basilio
30. Wilfredo Benitez
31. Fritzie Zivic
32. Errol Spence
33. Marty Servo
34. Mysterious Billy Smith
35. Curtis Cokes
36. James "Rube" Ferns
37. Young Cobett III
38. Jose Pipino Cuavas
39. Joe Dundee
40. Oakland Jimmy Duffy
41. Johnny Saxton
42. James Buddy McGirt
43. Mike Twin Sullivan
44. Cocoa Kid
45. Carlos Palomino
46. Simon Brown
47. Willie Lewis
48. Dave Shade
49. Kid Azteca
50. Keith Thurman

....so, flame on, you bastages.

[The Old LefHook]

What I could never figure out is why the word "welter," gets in the picture. What is it supposed to mean that it was chosen as the name of a division?

Mayweather does not belong on an ATG list for welters. Neither does Pacquiao. Those guys are not welterweights but little men who packed on enough weight to be called that. The only man who did that who was good enough was Duran.

1 Robinson
2 Leonard
3 Hearns
4 Walker
5 Griffith
6 Napoles
7 Duran
8 Gavilan
9 Basilio
10 Benitez


That is the best list I have seen. Sterling.

How could Leonard not be second? He beat three guys on the top 10 AT welterweight list. I don't even like Leonard, but right is right.

[QueensburyRules]

What I could never figure out is why the word "welter," gets in the picture. What is it supposed to mean that it was chosen as the name of a division?

Mayweather does not belong on an ATG list for welters. Neither does Pacquiao. Those guys are not welterweights but little men who packed on enough weight to be called that. The only man who did that who was good enough was Duran.

1 Robinson
2 Leonard
3 Hearns
4 Walker
5 Griffith
6 Napoles
7 Duran
8 Gavilan
9 Basilio
10 Benitez


That is the best list I have seen. Sterling.

How could Leonard not be second? He beat three guys on the top 10 AT welterweight list. I don't even like Leonard, but right is right.

- - U wearing U dentures over U eyes is it?

Manny wif manny, manny, ie manny mo' welter fights than Duran who quit the division in a disgrace at the time.

[Willie Pep 229]

What I could never figure out is why the word "welter," gets in the picture. What is it supposed to mean that it was chosen as the name of a division?

Mayweather does not belong on an ATG list for welters. Neither does Pacquiao. Those guys are not welterweights but little men who packed on enough weight to be called that. The only man who did that who was good enough was Duran.

1 Robinson
2 Leonard
3 Hearns
4 Walker
5 Griffith
6 Napoles
7 Duran
8 Gavilan
9 Basilio
10 Benitez


That is the best list I have seen. Sterling.

How could Leonard not be second? He beat three guys on the top 10 AT welterweight list. I don't even like Leonard, but right is right.

You think Ross and McLaurin not WWs or not in the top ten? Then I would hope they would be11 and 12 on your list.

H2H I feel both would give any WW a tough night in any era.

[The Old LefHook]

You think Ross and McLaurin not WWs or not in the top ten? Then I would hope they would be11 and 12 on your list.

H2H I feel both would give any WW a tough night in any era.

Isn't it weird to hope about what is on another man's list?

[QueensburyRules]

Isn't it weird to hope about what is on another man's list?

- - No more weird than Manny having manny, manny mo' welter title fights than Ray and Roberto combined, but such is U dumbo list.

Does U soak U dentures in ethanol?