Two Fascinating Tales of Sam McVey vs. Ju-Jitsu Experts

[billeau2]

So is it judo? Or does it incorporate some aspects of judo?

well... with Judo each culture tends to emphasize and develop aspects of it independent. It is definitely Judo.

Judo fits into the martial arts landscape of each culture differently as well. For example, Sambo is Russian Judo but branches out into many hybrid variations... Sambo for the ring, military, etc.

[Anthony342]

well... with Judo each culture tends to emphasize and develop aspects of it independent. It is definitely Judo.

Judo fits into the martial arts landscape of each culture differently as well. For example, Sambo is Russian Judo but branches out into many hybrid variations... Sambo for the ring, military, etc.

Does it use the same submissions in the art and competitions?

[JAB5239]

Does it use the same submissions in the art and competitions?

Judo, from my limited experience is more about throwing and pinning an opponent. There are some armlocks and such that I'm aware of, but I never went that far with it when I took it as a kid. I'm judo, I believe the key as getting your opponent off balance, which could come in very handy in that era of boxing.

[Anthony342]

Judo, from my limited experience is more about throwing and pinning an opponent. There are some armlocks and such that I'm aware of, but I never went that far with it when I took it as a kid. I'm judo, I believe the key as getting your opponent off balance, which could come in very handy in that era of boxing.

I'd prefer to choke someone out once I get them on the ground. End the fight sooner. Or if I can mount them, knock them out with punches.

[billeau2]

Does it use the same submissions in the art and competitions?

Judo in the last years has become more political, and has allowed less and less techniques, including submission techniques. Thus a schism has developed between the competitive landscape and the art.

As an art Judo has been used for everything, including self defense, military, etc. In the self defense Aspect submissions, take a back seat to what are technically called Strangulation techniques (shime waza).

Heres the thing: Almost every so called choke, in any Ju Jutsu system post war, Budo, is in Judo. The big difference being that originally instead of "strangulation" chokes in the classical Ju Jutsu systems were neck breaks, cateroid, wind pipe, even glotal strangles.

[billeau2]

Judo, from my limited experience is more about throwing and pinning an opponent. There are some armlocks and such that I'm aware of, but I never went that far with it when I took it as a kid. I'm judo, I believe the key as getting your opponent off balance, which could come in very handy in that era of boxing.

Your post addesses a fundamental issue that can make Anthony's question easy to answer as well. Judo has throws, Pins, restraints (pins), and chokes... Kano was careful to take an encyclopediac amount of stuff from the Ju Jutsu systems of his day... It even has strikes and weapons defenses.

But, the Japanese were stifled during the was years... Other Judo players in other countries emphazised different aspects that Kano laid out. Judo has leg locking, but Sambo (Russian Judo) REALLY has leg locks! lol... I mean they use them and developed them to a greater degree than the Japanese.

Ditto for Brazilian Ju Jutsu and ground work restraints. All the base techniques are in Judo, but they have really been developed in Brazilian Ju Jutsu.

So often enough what happens is people are surprised to learn that Judo has so much stuff, even including forms and procesures for self defense called the Go shin (5 forms). It is quite ingenious.

[JAB5239]

Judo in the last years has become more political, and has allowed less and less techniques, including submission techniques. Thus a schism has developed between the competitive landscape and the art.

As an art Judo has been used for everything, including self defense, military, etc. In the self defense Aspect submissions, take a back seat to what are technically called Strangulation techniques (shime waza).

Heres the thing: Almost every so called choke, in any Ju Jutsu system post war, Budo, is in Judo. The big difference being that originally instead of "strangulation" chokes in the classical Ju Jutsu systems were neck breaks, cateroid, wind pipe, even glotal strangles.

Your post addesses a fundamental issue that can make Anthony's question easy to answer as well. Judo has throws, Pins, restraints (pins), and chokes... Kano was careful to take an encyclopediac amount of stuff from the Ju Jutsu systems of his day... It even has strikes and weapons defenses.

But, the Japanese were stifled during the was years... Other Judo players in other countries emphazised different aspects that Kano laid out. Judo has leg locking, but Sambo (Russian Judo) REALLY has leg locks! lol... I mean they use them and developed them to a greater degree than the Japanese.

Ditto for Brazilian Ju Jutsu and ground work restraints. All the base techniques are in Judo, but they have really been developed in Brazilian Ju Jutsu.

So often enough what happens is people are surprised to learn that Judo has so much stuff, even including forms and procesures for self defense called the Go shin (5 forms). It is quite ingenious.

Great information. Thank you!

[Anthony342]

Your post addesses a fundamental issue that can make Anthony's question easy to answer as well. Judo has throws, Pins, restraints (pins), and chokes... Kano was careful to take an encyclopediac amount of stuff from the Ju Jutsu systems of his day... It even has strikes and weapons defenses.

But, the Japanese were stifled during the was years... Other Judo players in other countries emphazised different aspects that Kano laid out. Judo has leg locking, but Sambo (Russian Judo) REALLY has leg locks! lol... I mean they use them and developed them to a greater degree than the Japanese.

Ditto for Brazilian Ju Jutsu and ground work restraints. All the base techniques are in Judo, but they have really been developed in Brazilian Ju Jutsu.

So often enough what happens is people are surprised to learn that Judo has so much stuff, even including forms and procesures for self defense called the Go shin (5 forms). It is quite ingenious.

So the chokes are there, but I guess they can't use them in competitions then?

[billeau2]

So the chokes are there, but I guess they can't use them in competitions then?

last I heard... and it has been a few years, most strangulation stuff is allowed. My understanding, which may not be correct here, is that because the ground stuff is limited, many chokes simply cannot be applied.

Also most Judo chokes use the jacket to either strangle, or smother, thus getting the opponent to submit. usually before a strangle actually starts to cut off the blood, a person feels bad and submits.

[travestyny]

last I heard... and it has been a few years, most strangulation stuff is allowed. My understanding, which may not be correct here, is that because the ground stuff is limited, many chokes simply cannot be applied.

Also most Judo chokes use the jacket to either strangle, or smother, thus getting the opponent to submit. usually before a strangle actually starts to cut off the blood, a person feels bad and submits.

I haven't read everything you guys have been talking about so it's possible this has been discussed, but in the fight with Stevenson, I noticed this was part of the rules:

"Stevenson is debarred kicking for the heart and the straight body kick."

Any idea why? Maybe I can understand kicking for the heart...maybe...? But why not a straight body kick? Seems like it'd be a good plan to keep a boxer off of him.