Two Fascinating Tales of Sam McVey vs. Ju-Jitsu Experts

[billeau2]

I haven't read everything you guys have been talking about so it's possible this has been discussed, but in the fight with Stevenson, I noticed this was part of the rules:

"Stevenson is debarred kicking for the heart and the straight body kick."

Any idea why? Maybe I can understand kicking for the heart...maybe...? But why not a straight body kick? Seems like it'd be a good plan to keep a boxer off of him.

That is a great question... There are absolutely two reasons and only two reasons for this:

1) They were de facto eliminating kicks and might as well just had said so... In the classical Japanese arts, including Ju Jutsu the only recognized kick is straight from the front. There is no other kick... although there are what are called "reaps" where one trips the leg, or sweeps the leg.

2) ignorance. There are fables about the ability of martial artists to do things like attack the heart directly, even pull the heart, all not possible.

the truth is if I want to attack your heart with a kick, I am kicking you under the arm pit which will attack the main junction of the Vegus nerve complex, and cause really bad irregular heart beats.

If I want a direct attack I am hitting the top of the Zyphoid process, a hooked bone over the heart... when you break the hook, takes about 30-50 pounds of pressure, it can attack the heart area directly. Of course so can a hit to the plexus under it which is tender and full of nerves.

If they really wanted to stop a possible fatality, they would address those points, strikes to the testicles, throat and gouging.

Another myth is how Ju Jutsu uses vital points: actually because most of the period it was developed, armour was in use, most of the vital areas are the structural seams that give a place to hit under the armour, and not vital areas per se. So... we are on the battlefield, past our swords, we will try to throw, mount, and lift the helmet of the opponent, then cut the throat. At sword length we will cut into the arm pit area (trying to hit the axillory artory, or brachial viens).

So most Ju Jutsu fighting men are more inclined to throw, grapple into a strangle or joint hold, than attack a viral area. Even the hits are to the hitting arm of the fighter, or, to the throat and neck and little else, and with the knife hand, not the fist.

[Anthony342]

That is a great question... There are absolutely two reasons and only two reasons for this:

1) They were de facto eliminating kicks and might as well just had said so... In the classical Japanese arts, including Ju Jutsu the only recognized kick is straight from the front. There is no other kick... although there are what are called "reaps" where one trips the leg, or sweeps the leg.

2) ignorance. There are fables about the ability of martial artists to do things like attack the heart directly, even pull the heart, all not possible.

the truth is if I want to attack your heart with a kick, I am kicking you under the arm pit which will attack the main junction of the Vegus nerve complex, and cause really bad irregular heart beats.

If I want a direct attack I am hitting the top of the Zyphoid process, a hooked bone over the heart... when you break the hook, takes about 30-50 pounds of pressure, it can attack the heart area directly. Of course so can a hit to the plexus under it which is tender and full of nerves.

If they really wanted to stop a possible fatality, they would address those points, strikes to the testicles, throat and gouging.

Another myth is how Ju Jutsu uses vital points: actually because most of the period it was developed, armour was in use, most of the vital areas are the structural seams that give a place to hit under the armour, and not vital areas per se. So... we are on the battlefield, past our swords, we will try to throw, mount, and lift the helmet of the opponent, then cut the throat. At sword length we will cut into the arm pit area (trying to hit the axillory artory, or brachial viens).

So most Ju Jutsu fighting men are more inclined to throw, grapple into a strangle or joint hold, than attack a viral area. Even the hits are to the hitting arm of the fighter, or, to the throat and neck and little else, and with the knife hand, not the fist.

I just remembered something else. I believe a judo practitioner once fought one of the Gracies, possibly Helio or one of his brothers and couldn't win a knockout because they were on a softer mat than the judo guy was used to. The judo guy was trying to win by doing a hard enough throw. Is this common? Can a judo competitor win by doing a really hard throw? How does that work? Does the person get knocked out or do they tap out from the pain or something?

[JAB5239]

I just remembered something else. I believe a judo practitioner once fought one of the Gracies, possibly Helio or one of his brothers and couldn't win a knockout because they were on a softer mat than the judo guy was used to. The judo guy was trying to win by doing a hard enough throw. Is this common? Can a judo competitor win by doing a really hard throw? How does that work? Does the person get knocked out or do they tap out from the pain or something?

I'm sure guys have been knocked out by hard throws, but The first thing we were taught when I took it so many years ago was how to roll with the throw. At the upper echelon of the sport though I'm sure there are times that doesn't even make a difference.

[Anthony342]

I'm sure guys have been knocked out by hard throws, but The first thing we were taught when I took it so many years ago was how to roll with the throw. At the upper echelon of the sport though I'm sure there are times that doesn't even make a difference.

Kano Judo makes me think of Mortal Kombat. "Kano wins. Flawless Victory. Fatality."

[billeau2]

I just remembered something else. I believe a judo practitioner once fought one of the Gracies, possibly Helio or one of his brothers and couldn't win a knockout because they were on a softer mat than the judo guy was used to. The judo guy was trying to win by doing a hard enough throw. Is this common? Can a judo competitor win by doing a really hard throw? How does that work? Does the person get knocked out or do they tap out from the pain or something?

Ju Jutsu throws were done for two reasons, to throw person on head, or to meet them on the ground for an immediate follow up technique... thats what those arm bars used to be for, so for example, I shoulder throw you as you are landing I scoot to the side, when you hit I secure your arm.

Judo made the throws so you can land properly. So no Judo throw done on a mat with a trained partner (uke) will cause a problem. Judo throws are more spectacular though and on the concrete, they can crush someone as they hit the ground.

So the Ju Jutsu are less ariel, more deadly in the place you hit and the immediate follow up, also many chokes were neck breaks done as the person lands... for example, I come behind you pull you softly so the back of your head is in my chest between my arms... I then drop straight down, as my tushe hits the ground, your neck snaps.

In a match throws are only good for displaying skills, as it is very hard to throw a balanced opponent. They will not, in any event cause damage, regardless of the mat.

[travestyny]

That is a great question... There are absolutely two reasons and only two reasons for this:

1) They were de facto eliminating kicks and might as well just had said so... In the classical Japanese arts, including Ju Jutsu the only recognized kick is straight from the front. There is no other kick... although there are what are called "reaps" where one trips the leg, or sweeps the leg.

2) ignorance. There are fables about the ability of martial artists to do things like attack the heart directly, even pull the heart, all not possible.

the truth is if I want to attack your heart with a kick, I am kicking you under the arm pit which will attack the main junction of the Vegus nerve complex, and cause really bad irregular heart beats.

If I want a direct attack I am hitting the top of the Zyphoid process, a hooked bone over the heart... when you break the hook, takes about 30-50 pounds of pressure, it can attack the heart area directly. Of course so can a hit to the plexus under it which is tender and full of nerves.

If they really wanted to stop a possible fatality, they would address those points, strikes to the testicles, throat and gouging.

Another myth is how Ju Jutsu uses vital points: actually because most of the period it was developed, armour was in use, most of the vital areas are the structural seams that give a place to hit under the armour, and not vital areas per se. So... we are on the battlefield, past our swords, we will try to throw, mount, and lift the helmet of the opponent, then cut the throat. At sword length we will cut into the arm pit area (trying to hit the axillory artory, or brachial viens).

So most Ju Jutsu fighting men are more inclined to throw, grapple into a strangle or joint hold, than attack a viral area. Even the hits are to the hitting arm of the fighter, or, to the throat and neck and little else, and with the knife hand, not the fist.

Thanks brotha!!!

[Anthony342]

Ju Jutsu throws were done for two reasons, to throw person on head, or to meet them on the ground for an immediate follow up technique... thats what those arm bars used to be for, so for example, I shoulder throw you as you are landing I scoot to the side, when you hit I secure your arm.

Judo made the throws so you can land properly. So no Judo throw done on a mat with a trained partner (uke) will cause a problem. Judo throws are more spectacular though and on the concrete, they can crush someone as they hit the ground.

So the Ju Jutsu are less ariel, more deadly in the place you hit and the immediate follow up, also many chokes were neck breaks done as the person lands... for example, I come behind you pull you softly so the back of your head is in my chest between my arms... I then drop straight down, as my tushe hits the ground, your neck snaps.

In a match throws are only good for displaying skills, as it is very hard to throw a balanced opponent. They will not, in any event cause damage, regardless of the mat.

So I guess that guy was surprised and frustrated when he couldn't knock out that Gracie brother with his throws. Other than Rousey, there was Karo Parisyan on the men's side representing judo in MMA and Kayla Harrison, who took gold in judo at the 2012 and 2016 Olympics and is 8-0 so far, signed to the female Invicta promotion.

[billeau2]

So I guess that guy was surprised and frustrated when he couldn't knock out that Gracie brother with his throws. Other than Rousey, there was Karo Parisyan on the men's side representing judo in MMA and Kayla Harrison, who took gold in judo at the 2012 and 2016 Olympics and is 8-0 so far, signed to the female Invicta promotion.

They train hard in a lot of clubs...