Mike McCallum Vs the Fab 4

[Hawkins]

I wonder what you would say if Hagler was white......

I only mention this because of your pathetic and cowardly avatar...
Talk about not hiding your bias or your racism.

Usual suspect???????????

lol

Have you totally flipped your wig? What does race have to do with anything? No one said anything about race because this was not a discussion about race in any way shape or form. It was about your ridiculous claims about Hagler. I get it playa, you dont like Marv but you have yet to back it up with anything other than nonsense. Until you can conjure up an argument not steeped in racial idiocy you are dismissed.

[Juan Acero]

Have you totally flipped your wig? What does race have to do with anything? No one said anything about race because this was not a discussion about race in any way shape or form. It was about your ridiculous claims about Hagler. I get it playa, you dont like Marv but you have yet to back it up with anything other than nonsense. Until you can conjure up an argument not steeped in racial idiocy you are dismissed.

You're the one who called me a "suspect" Just because I don't like Hagler....

The scrub is over rated AS HELL.

Whats so special about Jimmy Owens??

[Hawkins]

You're the one who called me a "suspect" Just because I don't like Hagler....

The scrub is over rated AS HELL.

Whats so special about Jimmy Owens??

So you keep saying yet you offer no credible evidence to back up said claim.......

Jimmy Owens? I don't follow.

[Juan Acero]

So you keep saying yet you offer no credible evidence to back up said claim.......

Jimmy Owens? I don't follow.

If you don't know who Jimmy Owens is then you shouldn't
be talking about Hagler. You should just shut up.

I'm actually embarrassed for you.

Inept fighter with Inept fans....

lol

[billeau2]

Hagler McCallum a pick 'em? I would favor Marvin. Vogues change. Currently in vogue is slamming the legacy of Hagler. A lot of fighters may be overrated, including the fab four. I suspect that McCallum might be, as well. Just because he is not on everyone's lips does not mean he is underrated. He's gonna do this, he's gonna do that to so and so. What did he do? Nothing else counts.

People are fond of calling Ezzard Charles underrated, for instance, and have been for years. Underrated for what, I would like to know? Everyone should still be talking about him? This has been going on for a long time, so his talents are well known by now. He is consistently rated in the top 5 light heavyweights AT. Where is the underrating? Any casual fan could name 15 large heavyweights who would slaughter poor Ezzard like a hog. But very few fighters near his actual weight could handle him.

In the end you can only go by the evidence each fighter left. It is a game of forensics to pit one fighter mythically against another. I am seeing strong claims made for McCallum, but no forensics to go along with it. The evidence is in the forensics. What is the evidence for McCallum? Was their a stereotype-shattering performance? Show me all evidence. Explain it. Make your case not with opinions but boxing forensics. I am not making this case, someone else is. I am on the jury this time.

Lefty

well said as usual. A lot depends on the weight class, we have to assume middle weight I guess. MCC belongs in the room for sure. His speed is a big problem it means that if he fights Hagler for example, never mind leonard, tht Marvin will get off first and last on most exchanges. leonard was a similar problem. He ould beat Hearns in that "styles make fights" kind of way... Getting past the jab and going to the body.

[The Old LefHook]

Good to see you back, Billy boy. There has been a definite decline in boxing forensics around here since your hiatus. These days, I merely come on and look at some of the titles of the threads, and then go have a nice puke. To actually read the arguments persistently could be a viable substitute for jail time. Our lawmakers should seriously consider that option. A solution to jail overcrowding is right here in this forum. Fortunately, there are still a few lads around capable of analysis.

Back to forensics.

I like your idea about Hagler getting off first. He was never known as super quick, but was not a slow poke, either. Some of Marv's speed edge will likely be negated by the excellent timing and skill of McCallum who had good boxing smarts. Marv's biggest weakness consisted of lapses in ring generalship. Here he could be out marshaled. He could be suckered into another man's fight. If McCallum could implement such a strategy, he might indeed make this a pick'em affair. I would still have to give Marvin a slight edge.

Hagler's ring generalship was at its worst against Leonard. Leonard had special talents, though, and the speed difference between the two was critical, whereas the speed difference between Marv and Mike is noticeable but in my opinion not great enough to be critical. That is to say, MacCallum could conceivably overcome it.

[Hawkins]

If you don't know who Jimmy Owens is then you shouldn't
be talking about Hagler. You should just shut up.

I'm actually embarrassed for you.

Inept fighter with Inept fans....

lol

Point being, moron, what does Owens have to do with this discussion? Trying to point out that a young Hagler struggled with an opponent or got a questionable DQ victory? Or do you even know? Big difference between name dropping and expounding on a subject.

Otherwise, keep up your idiotic diatribes and racist rhetoric because it exposes you for what you are, and that's a race baiting troll.

[billeau2]

Good to see you back, Billy boy. There has been a definite decline in boxing forensics around here since your hiatus. These days, I merely come on and look at some of the titles of the threads, and then go have a nice puke. To actually read the arguments persistently could be a viable substitute for jail time. Our lawmakers should seriously consider that option. A solution to jail overcrowding is right here in this forum. Fortunately, there are still a few lads around capable of analysis.

Back to forensics.

I like your idea about Hagler getting off first. He was never known as super quick, but was not a slow poke, either. Some of Marv's speed edge will likely be negated by the excellent timing and skill of McCallum who had good boxing smarts. Marv's biggest weakness consisted of lapses in ring generalship. Here he could be out marshaled. He could be suckered into another man's fight. If McCallum could implement such a strategy, he might indeed make this a pick'em affair. I would still have to give Marvin a slight edge.

Hagler's ring generalship was at its worst against Leonard. Leonard had special talents, though, and the speed difference between the two was critical, whereas the speed difference between Marv and Mike is noticeable but in my opinion not great enough to be critical. That is to say, MacCallum could conceivably overcome it.

Those are good points Lefty... Yes indeed the speed difference between hagler and McCallum was neglible and in fact Mccallum was a better counter puncher. Im just thinking that in a kind of roc em soc em robots Marvin throws more and hits a few more times when the cards come in...but McCallum could make you think three times with his counter punching. Speed and reach can be negated...and McCallum had the reach but his strategy precludes it for the most part.

Im trying to think of a match that tells us about how this one would look. I can't think of one.

[Elroy The Great]

Point being, moron, what does Owens have to do with this discussion? Trying to point out that a young Hagler struggled with an opponent or got a questionable DQ victory? Or do you even know? Big difference between name dropping and expounding on a subject.

Otherwise, keep up your idiotic diatribes and racist rhetoric because it exposes you for what you are, and that's a race baiting troll.

im a fan of both guys but more so hagler. imho, hagler had it all;

the skill, tenacity, able to jab with either hand, jaw, power....for a so called fight fan to claim he was a lumbering sloth shows that person isnt a fight fan.

99 % of every fighter has an ''owens'' in their resume.

whats so special about marcos martinez or fermin chirino (for mike) ?!?!?!

[JAB5239]

You're the one who called me a "suspect" Just because I don't like Hagler....

The scrub is over rated AS HELL.

Whats so special about Jimmy Owens??

Yet "the scrub" cleaned out a division, beat other ATG's and had a skill set amongst the best ever in his division. The fact you don't or can't differentiate that calls as much into question as your admittance you don't like him.