Being unbeaten, doesn't mean you are the best

[chaconfan]

it was just a bunch of misrepresentations. Fake news style.

lol yeah right. I will delete my account then, as you requested.....not.

[chaconfan]

But why is your opinion of Marciano based on the idea that he MIGHT have lost? That makes no sense. Like I said, Marciano is a heavyweight great, is he the best? Certainly not but in a division with Ali, Foreman, Holyfield et al, simply being great is exceptional work.

So you are actually saying that I should not even think that if he carried on boxing, he MIGHT have lost?
No boxer who ever lived or ever will live could go unbeaten forever. All I am saying is that he was lucky to be unbeaten because he beat mostly poor opponents, and the FEW good ones he beat, were past their best and often from lighter weight classes. If he would have had to fight Lewis, Bowe, Foreman, Tyson, Witherspoon etc etc, it is HIGHLY doubtful that he would have been unbeaten. If you can't understand that, I can't help you to.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

lol yeah right. I will delete my account then, as you requested.....not.

You posted it not me. If that's the kind of garbage you want to be known for then go right on ahead

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Marciano's resume is pretty weak.

[Marchegiano]

Every time, every single time I click one of these " This is my opinion of The Rock" threads and sift through them agree or disagree I'm always disappointed in the utter lack of research, lack of any attempt to understand the era, and absurd amount of assumptions that are used as evidence to suggest one's opine is definitive.

Even my fellow Marciano fan disappoint the **** out of me. How the **** are you going to claim to be a fan of Marciano and not mention a single peer? If the only guy you know of that Rock fought that was a contemporary to Marciano is Roland ****ing LaStarza guess what, you're not a fan. You're a ****ing casual, that's casual information anyone can casually come across. This whole thread up to this point is ****ing casual.

Of course Marciano's resume is filled with greats from the past. He ****ing KO'd everyone else before they got a chance to fight for the title you dumb ****s. Peek my man Harry Mathews. I'll leave out details and just give quick bits.

Lost for the first time in his 17th fight against a man who had 97 wins. Then on his 37ths fight he lost to a man with 55 wins then his 38th to a man with 60 wins.

Now our lad Harry has 35 Ws - 3 Ls all three coming from guys who had much more experience than he. This pattern of biting off more than you can chew would be Harry's downfall and why you've never noticed him.

After his loss to Eddie Booker who was 60-4 Harry went on a 50+ fight win streak including avenging his original loss against Jackie Burke, twice.

81 wins, 3 losses, only one by KO and it was a technical not actual KO. One of the longest win streaks in HW history, stopped in two rounds by The Rock.

Harry went on to fight a fat, aging Don ****ell who no one gives respect to these days but is the guy who performed the best against Marciano. Joe Walcott was meant to beat Rock, Moore and Charles were meant to beat Rock, even LaStarza had supposedly been cheated in their first match and was meant to beat Rock in the rematch. None of them did, none of them even got all that close. ****ell was meant to be a walkthrough and ****ell is the man who pushed Marciano around.

Harry saw Don like you guys do, a blown up middleweight not worth much of nothing he would easily work circles around. That's why Harry couldn't accept Doni-C had his number and stacked 3 Ls to the same man ending his career with a record of 90-7.

90 and ****ing 7, 50+ fight win streak and you're telling me that's not a resume worthy name? Like **** son, you just have not bothered to learn **** all about 1950s boxing, or Rocky Marciano, let alone techniques and behind the scenes details.



If AJ had already KO'd Parker, Wilder, Tyson, and Ortiz before any of them had fought for a title or was in position to then went on to KO a 40+ year old Wlad would anyone be talking about AJ's Wilder win like it's worth a **** 65yrs later? Of ****ing course not. So how the **** is Marciano supposed to have any sort of highly awarded or respected peer on his resume when he's clearly KOd anyone with any hope of that before becoming the champion?


****ing argue about racism, whether or not the former champs were shot, and size....and that's not a casual conversation? These are not opinions lifted from articles? These are opinions arrived at by independent research? Yeah, my ****, you don't know of any good wins or stories not covered by articles on es ****ing pn.

I like talking about Marciano, but if all youse guys have to say is blah blah ted lowry racism blah blah old blah I'm just going to talk at you. Because you have nothing of worth to share with anyone. Put Rock's name in any search and jango there is your opinion written better by an author....wowzers. Get a real opinion and I'll show you some respect. Restate the most popular **** written in articles on the subject and I'm just going to talk at you.

[BattlingNelson]

8. He didn't want anything to do with Liston, and was challenged by Patterson, who was young, unlike all the men he had been beating, and had been looking awesome, which was later backed up by his performance against Moore, in comparison to Rocky's. He therefore retired younger than his title challengers.
Any decent prospect could beat 49-0, if they were matched right, and if that was the only goal. Hell, line me up 50 90 year olds, and hopefully, I would beat it!
Hope you enjoyed the article. I am not looking to diss anyone, nor am I looking for arguments, just want to see what others think.

Based upon my dads contemporary yearbooks I recall that Marciano retired due to lack of opposition and because of the grueling training camps he had to prepare for his grueling fights.

Looking at boxrec at the time of Rocky's retirement, I can see that Sonny Liston was 12-1. You claim that Rocky wanted nothing to do with him. Can you elaborate on that?

As for Patterson well he had not had a fight a heavyweight at that time so if you could expand a bit on why Patterson should be a threat to Marciano here in late 1955?

[StarshipTrooper]

Based upon my dads contemporary yearbooks I recall that Marciano retired due to lack of opposition and because of the grueling training camps he had to prepare for his grueling fights.

Looking at boxrec at the time of Rocky's retirement, I can see that Sonny Liston was 12-1. You claim that Rocky wanted nothing to do with him. Can you elaborate on that?

As for Patterson well he had not had a fight a heavyweight at that time so if you could expand a bit on why Patterson should be a threat to Marciano here in late 1955?

Amazing how people who make claims don't actually look at the timeline. While I would favor Liston in a prime vs prime matchup with Rocky, Liston wasn't on the radar screen at the time Marciano retired. He was a nobody fighting prelims at the time. Patterson is an interesting matchup (I'd favor a past-prime Rocky over a prime Floyd in a great fight), but as you pointed out he hadn't yet moved up to Heavy at the time Rocky hung them up.

[joeandthebums]

As for Patterson well he had not had a fight a heavyweight at that time so if you could expand a bit on why Patterson should be a threat to Marciano here in late 1955?

Patterson hadn't yet fought as a HW but was already talking of moving up prior to Marciano announcing his retirement. (At the time of Marciano's retirement, April 27th 1956 Patterson was ranked #1 at LHW)

In May Patterson signed up to meet #2 Tommy Jackson (arguably the toughest opponent available at the time.) It's hard to commit to, but he may of been moved faster with Marciano out the picture as there was only Moore between him and the title.

What I think we can be certain of, if Marciano decided to carry on (he said he felt he could of took on three more contenders if desired) - Patterson if moved at same speed as post-his retirement would of been one of those three. A Moore rematch (which Norris/IBC had no interest in) and Jackson the likely other two.

[Jamie harris]

Does anyone agree that Marciano was only unbeaten because he was lucky?
He was lucky for these reasons;
1. He got to his title shot by beating mostly unknowns. Guys with as many as 57 losses!
2. He got a decision over Roland LaStarza that was "universally criticised" as being unfair. The fact that Marciano's manager was the matchmaker for Madison square garden, was the major reason as to why Rocky was gifted it.
3. He also got a decision over Ted Lowry which even Ring ****zine accepts was a robbery.
4. He fought a 37 old for the title, who already had 16 losses. # Side note, a man at 37 in those days was a lot more worn out than today's equivalent, having a much tougher life, and many more gruelling fights, plus they were 15 rounders back then, as some younger readers might not be aware.
5. His title defences were against either old men (some sources list Moore as 45) or men who had moved up in weight, or both. Don C#ckell had been stopped by former middleweight Randy Turpin, and looked like the worst title challenger in history...although he did have guts.
6. Of his 6 defences, 3 were against guys he had already beaten and if we include his title win, his 7 opponents had 87 losses between them, often inflicted by light heavies and even middles.
7. His nose injury suffered in the Charles bout was easily bad enough for the fight to be stopped, and if the injury was on Charles, I think it is safe to say that the fight would have been stopped.
8. He didn't want anything to do with Liston, and was challenged by Patterson, who was young, unlike all the men he had been beating, and had been looking awesome, which was later backed up by his performance against Moore, in comparison to Rocky's. He therefore retired younger than his title challengers.
Any decent prospect could beat 49-0, if they were matched right, and if that was the only goal. Hell, line me up 50 90 year olds, and hopefully, I would beat it!
Hope you enjoyed the article. I am not looking to diss anyone, nor am I looking for arguments, just want to see what others think.

Im emailing the family who ive met and now live in daytona that your slagging him off. Red k and a complaint. Diss respectful ungrateful fxck witt

[W1LL]

8. He didn't want anything to do with Liston, and was challenged by Patterson, who was young, unlike all the men he had been beating, and had been looking awesome, which was later backed up by his performance against Moore, in comparison to Rocky's. He therefore retired younger than his title challengers.

When Rocky Marciano retired Sonny Liston was 12-1 (6 KO) and relatively unknown. Floyd Patterson was 27-1 (19 KO) and with him you may have a point. Most definately one of those great fantasy matchups that sadly never came off. A 32 year old Rocky Marciano, 49-0 (43 KO) versus a 21 year old Floyd Patterson, 27-1 (19 KO) in Spring 1966 for the Heavyweight championship. Would Marciano have made it 50-0, or would Patterson have beaten the reigning champion and started his own reign 6 months earlier? We will never know.