Being unbeaten, doesn't mean you are the best

[GhostofDempsey]

They embraced Sugar Ray Leonard and many others too. but I thought I had made it very clear that I was talking about a time long before Tyson et al.
Don't forget, most of white America wanted Frazier to beat Ali. Look at the circumstances surrounding Holmes v Cooney. Cooney was actually allowed to come into the ring last and actually got paid the same as the champ because he was the great white hope.
This is what Holmes said... ''Cooney has fought only setups,'' he said. ''If he weren't white, do you think he'd be here, getting the same money as me?"
White America hated Jack Johnson and tried all sorts of trickery and biased rules, to try to get rid of him. When Dempsey was champ, they virtually banned blacks from fighting for the title. Yes they are accepted and even idolized these days and have been for a while, but people like Marciano and Dempsey were like Gods to white America and anything to help them keep the title going to a black man would have been considered.

By the time Marciano came around America embraced many black fighters. Louis, Robinson, Armstrong, Saddler, Moore, etc.

For every white fan looking to Marciano or Dempsey as a God, there is a black fan bowing to the alter of Langford, McVey, Louis, all the way to Ali, Tyson, and Mayweather. Truth is a little ethnic pride is quite normal so long as fans can acknowledge the achievements of fighters outside their race.

Frazier was favored by many whites because he was not a big mouthed braggart, he respected his opponent and Ali was a puppet for the Nation of Islam. A draft dodger who supported a group that considered whites to be devils. Why would white America of the 1960s embrace that?

[Tony Trick-Pony]

By the time Marciano came around America embraced many black fighters. Louis, Robinson, Armstrong, Saddler, Moore, etc.

For every white fan looking to Marciano or Dempsey as a God, there is a black fan bowing to the alter of Langford, McVey, Louis, all the way to Ali, Tyson, and Mayweather. Truth is a little ethnic pride is quite normal so long as fans can acknowledge the achievements of fighters outside their race.

Frazier was favored by many whites because he was not a big mouthed braggart, he respected his opponent and Ali was a puppet for the Nation of Islam. A draft dodger who supported a group that considered whites to be devils. Why would white America of the 1960s embrace that?

Damn, man. There are nails. They have heads. You smashed every one of them with this post.

Exactly spot on about black fans bowing down to their own gods of the sport as whites do and why not? Whites are the only ones perceived as wrong for doing so. Such an excellent point, sir.

And on Frazier and Ali especially. If a white guy were saying all blacks were devils, not only would it be considered wrong for whites to be praising him in any way. Blacks praising him would be considered moronic. By that logic, how many moronic white people are out there? Quite a few and are expected to be. The double standard is atrocious.

I don't why so many times a black fighter is beaten, it is assumed he is robbed and when a white fighter wins, he is considered to have cheated or used his white privilege. It's ridiculous.

[chaconfan]

You do realize that by wanting Frazier to win, they were cheering on a black man? Ha.

Beyond this, with the Cooney fight, you should also note that Cooney had been out of the ring for 18 months before the fight. If they wanted him to win so badly as you say, wouldn't they have better prepared him for the fight? As far as Dempsey, he would have fought anybody but Doc Kearn didn't want him to. I don't know that the majority of white Americans wanted this. There's really no proof that they did. This is a broad assumption that has been passed down and keeps getting repeated but what real evidence is there that America HAD to HAVE a WHITE champion? Joe Louis was revered when he was champion. No one cared that he was black. Jack Johnson kind of dug his own grave with that one. He was very outlandish and didn't give a damn. I'm not saying he was rightly persecuted but the guy liked to piss people off and didn't care. Besides, he remained champion for many years. If the country had been so downright hate-filled, wouldn't they have just stripped him? I'm saying that all this racial talk usually is not that verifiable. Human nature really doesn't change. Racists have always been in the minority.

I think you just like to argue...and be told you are right.
Frazier was called an uncle Tom by Ali, because he was seen to be a white mans black. Cooney was always having long spells out of the ring, and no, don't be ridiculous they couldn't strip Johnson just because they hated him, and if they didn't want a white man as champ, why did they only put white guys in to try to take his title? They were that desperate that they brought a guy out of retirement, and even put the middleweight champ in with him, with special conditions, one of which being that Johnson was not allowed to hit him hard. I can't be bothered arguing further, just read a book or ten.

[chaconfan]

By the time Marciano came around America embraced many black fighters. Louis, Robinson, Armstrong, Saddler, Moore, etc.

For every white fan looking to Marciano or Dempsey as a God, there is a black fan bowing to the alter of Langford, McVey, Louis, all the way to Ali, Tyson, and Mayweather. Truth is a little ethnic pride is quite normal so long as fans can acknowledge the achievements of fighters outside their race.

Frazier was favored by many whites because he was not a big mouthed braggart, he respected his opponent and Ali was a puppet for the Nation of Islam. A draft dodger who supported a group that considered whites to be devils. Why would white America of the 1960s embrace that?

You seem intelligent, but have taken my comments incorrectly. I NEVER said America was wrong for not accepting the way Ali was. I always talk about how he slapped white people in the face, after they launched his career. If you look for posts by myself, you will find comments I have made very recently stating that I never in my life came across a black guy on a forum, on youtube or in person, that supported a white boxer...especially if that white boxer happened to be fighting a black one. I would always support the one I like best, regardless of race, but that is me.

[chaconfan]

Damn, man. There are nails. They have heads. You smashed every one of them with this post.

Exactly spot on about black fans bowing down to their own gods of the sport as whites do and why not? Whites are the only ones perceived as wrong for doing so. Such an excellent point, sir.

And on Frazier and Ali especially. If a white guy were saying all blacks were devils, not only would it be considered wrong for whites to be praising him in any way. Blacks praising him would be considered moronic. By that logic, how many moronic white people are out there? Quite a few and are expected to be. The double standard is atrocious.

I don't why so many times a black fighter is beaten, it is assumed he is robbed and when a white fighter wins, he is considered to have cheated or used his white privilege. It's ridiculous.

Some of those nails were a bit weak, and broke upon closer examination.
I know black guys only support black boxers, I have mentioned it a few times. I know racism works both ways, and I will go further by stating as a fact, that whites often idolize black boxers but it NEVER works the other way round. I have many black friends, and every time one loses to a white guy, they always cry foul.
Most of my fav boxers are black, none of any of my black mates favs are white.
I have debated on youtube and other forums and never once seen a black guy defend a white boxer.
O.J.Simpson was guilty as hell and EVERYONE knew it, but despite the fact that he murdered two innocent people and cost the tax payers millions, black people jumped and whooped for joy, now imagine if a white man had killed two blacks, do you think they still would have reacted that way? We all know that there would have been massive riots, and that was one of the considerations the jury had to contend with, if we find him guilty, they will riot....yet white people are considered racists? White people voted a black man as president. Could anyone imagine a predominantly black society voting for a white man to rule over them? They make a fuss over the made up, old fashioned story of Tarzan ffs! Don't think I don't know about double standards and don't think I am totally biased towards blacks. I know what time it is!

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Some of those nails were a bit weak, and broke upon closer examination.
I know black guys only support black boxers, I have mentioned it a few times. I know racism works both ways, and I will go further by stating as a fact, that whites often idolize black boxers but it NEVER works the other way round. I have many black friends, and every time one loses to a white guy, they always cry foul.
Most of my fav boxers are black, none of any of my black mates favs are white.
I have debated on youtube and other forums and never once seen a black guy defend a white boxer.
O.J.Simpson was guilty as hell and EVERYONE knew it, but despite the fact that he murdered two innocent people and cost the tax payers millions, black people jumped and whooped for joy, now imagine if a white man had killed two blacks, do you think they still would have reacted that way? We all know that there would have been massive riots, and that was one of the considerations the jury had to contend with, if we find him guilty, they will riot....yet white people are considered racists? White people voted a black man as president. Could anyone imagine a predominantly black society voting for a white man to rule over them? They make a fuss over the made up, old fashioned story of Tarzan ffs! Don't think I don't know about double standards and don't think I am totally biased towards blacks. I know what time it is!

Very well put, sir.

[chaconfan]

Thank you pal

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Thank you pal

Sure thing and I'm a Chacon fan as well. His fourth fight with Bazooka Limon is one of my favorite fights. The guy always brought everything and left it all in the ring. True warrior to the bone.

[chaconfan]

Sure thing and I'm a Chacon fan as well. His fourth fight with Bazooka Limon is one of my favorite fights. The guy always brought everything and left it all in the ring. True warrior to the bone.

For anyone interested. Chacon's 4th fight with Limon was made because he wouldn't quit boxing, despite seemingly being way past his best, so his wife committed suicide. Don King used the publicity to create interest in Bobby again, and the result was the fight of the year.
Then he voluntarily defended against a guy who had stopped him a few years earlier...and then THAT was the fight of the year, the year after. If I have interested you, then check out his fight with Frias, Chacon wayyyy past his best, in an incredible war with a bigger man, who was also an ex world champ.

[Canelo and GGG]

Ofc you need luck ,we would have no right to cry if Floyd would lose to Castilio or ODL by decision,same with Rocky and LaStarza