Top 5 P4P Ranking

[DeeMoney]

Clearly you've never heard of Harry Greb, nor seen Vasily Lomachenko.


Robinson was terrific, but feasted on smaller men. For entertainment purposes, he was one of the best.

Take a look at Greb's record from 1919. Across Robinson's career you find as many ATGs. And there's NO ONE on Robinson's record who looks as good as Walker, Loughran, and Tunney - fighters legendary for their performances NORTH of Middleweight. Dempsey wouldn't fight him. Robinson wouldn't only avoid bigger men, he also avoided the best w/in his weight range. Greb fought blind. Robinson had to be dragged out of the ring because he overheated fight Joey ****ing Maxim.

Gotta re-read my OP. I refused to rank Greb in the top 5 because there is no footage of him. He may be the best but I wont rank him that high if I cant see him.

[QueensburyRules]

- -We have yet to see you sweetpea, so you say you don't exist now is it?

All righty then!!!

[SheenLantern]

We're talking about greatest Boxers, not greatest PED abusers.

You're very naive if you don't think all high-level athletes in every sport are on some kind of PED.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Gotta re-read my OP. I refused to rank Greb in the top 5 because there is no footage of him. He may be the best but I wont rank him that high if I cant see him.

LOL, we have plenty of footage of men he's faced. All look better than anyone Robinson faced. Many were about on par w/ Robinson.

Seriously, Walker was the same size as Robinson and built his career defeating ATG Light Heavyweights and challenging top Heavyweights. And Ray gets ATG status for losing to Tiger Jones, splitting w/ Turpin, and his fiasco with Basilio?

Show me the footage of Robinson where he's better than Duran or Jofre.

[Rusty Tromboni]

You're very naive if you don't think all high-level athletes in every sport are on some kind of PED.

And your reading comprehension sucks if you've inferred that from anything I have ever posted; let alone what's in this thread.

You're clearly ignorant of the fact that those men emerged in the pre-VADA era. Decades previous men didn't have access to the PEDs used by the fighters you listed, and current fighters find it much more difficult to prevail in using them.


Whitaker is no Willie Pep. Ray Leonard is no Ray Robinson. Mayweather is no Archie Moore. That's not to say Boxing hasn't improved in many respects. But modern fighters, it has to be accepted, are very coddled. So their careers and performances need to be critically evaluated.

[SheenLantern]

And your reading comprehension sucks if you've inferred that from anything I have ever posted; let alone what's in this thread.

You're clearly ignorant of the fact that those men emerged in the pre-VADA era. Decades previous men didn't have access to the PEDs used by the fighters you listed, and current fighters find it much more difficult to prevail in using them.


Whitaker is no Willie Pep. Ray Leonard is no Ray Robinson. Mayweather is no Archie Moore. That's not to say Boxing hasn't improved in many respects. But modern fighters, it has to be accepted, are very coddled. So their careers and performances need to be critically evaluated.

Maybe this GIF will make you realise how much athletes have improved

[DeeMoney]

LOL, we have plenty of footage of men he's faced. All look better than anyone Robinson faced. Many were about on par w/ Robinson.

Seriously, Walker was the same size as Robinson and built his career defeating ATG Light Heavyweights and challenging top Heavyweights. And Ray gets ATG status for losing to Tiger Jones, splitting w/ Turpin, and his fiasco with Basilio?

Show me the footage of Robinson where he's better than Duran or Jofre.

Unfortunately we don't have any full fight footage of prime Robinson, but we do have a preponderance of post prime, and highlights, and I think that, combined with the info we have on him, helps build a complete picture of the fighter.

I think mid 40s Robinsons run, mixed in with what skillsets he displayed in the early 50s (speed, punching power, etc) show him to be better at that point then anyone ever who we have film on.

[QueensburyRules]

You're very naive if you don't think all high-level athletes in every sport are on some kind of PED.

- -Been at this a lot longer than you Sheeny sweetie, and it's been my experience that you lack experience enough to comment on such a vast accusation.

As long as the drug testing cartels ban legal substances yet allow BALCO Vic and the boxing orgs to sell his VADA vitamins while condemning nanograms of legal substances in the food chain, you'll always look the fool.

All your ****** link did was take me to a site to buy their ****** app. What a joke but typical of addled moderns.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Maybe this GIF will make you realise how much athletes have improved

LOL, my post went right over your head.


Look at the MLB with Barry Bonds, do you think he could be an ATg if he were a contemporary of Ted Williams? LMAO. Obviously not. Mike Trout, definitely. Bryce Harper? Yup. But Barry Bonds!? HELL NO.

Look at the NFL. I don't need to bring up Johnny Unitas. Hell, I can look to the 80's. Montana's arm had more in common with cooked linguine than an arm like Aaron Rogers'. Too bad for Joe Cool there's no "P4P" in pro-football. yeah, yeah, Montana will always be mentioned up there w/ Brady, but everyone knows he could never lead teams like Rogers or Roethlisberger have in the past 15-20 years. They're physical dimensions and abilities account for too much.

Don't get me wrong. I fully appreciate that PEDs have changed things. But it's more complicated than that. And it is kinda funny that you showed footage from Olympic Gymnastics, while the footage available for Boxing is far more extensive, and proves there's been quite a degree of regression. Other sports have evolved, but Boxing hasn't. Not exactly. (Probably we should be thankful that it even still exists.)


Look at footage of Willie Pep. Not only did he invent pure-boxing, he perfected it. There hasn't been as good a pure Boxer since. Countless concessions have been made making it conducive for him to be displaed, but it hasn't happened. Whitaker comes closest, but he definitely doesn't out-do Pep. It's probable that he really wouldn't have gone far had he come of age in Pep's era. Really, I think Locche had the most potential to rival Pep. But he was adamant that he was an entertainer rather than a fighter; and he didn't wanna put in the work the way Mayweather and Whitaker did. But when they came, they came decades later.

How about Louis? What he did was amazing, but he wasn't quite as good as Pep. Then you consider we have more and more heavyweights than ever. But can you show any w/ the perfection of Louis? Fury, of course, has taken defensive Boxing to a whole new level in that division. He's kinda like the Heavyweight division's Pep. But in a division where fighters are known for their offense, why can't you provide me any gifs showcasing the an advancement in offensive technique?


I will say Lomachenko is one for the ages. The dude is one of the very best. I'd pick him over a lot of the Golden Calves of Boxing. And there are lots of old timers that make me cringe: I don't get the Fitzsimmons Fancy of the Gans Groupies. It takes careful investigation and a mind that's both open and thinks critically.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Unfortunately we don't have any full fight footage of prime Robinson, but we do have a preponderance of post prime, and highlights, and I think that, combined with the info we have on him, helps build a complete picture of the fighter.

I think mid 40s Robinsons run, mixed in with what skillsets he displayed in the early 50s (speed, punching power, etc) show him to be better at that point then anyone ever who we have film on.

LOL, so you admit we have footage of him being dragged out of the ring against Joey Maxim, and the disaster against Tiger Jones... among other travesties. All of the footage shows me he had lots of charisma and entertainment value. But not that he was the greatest ever. Tunney, Monzon, Mayweather, Rigo, Vlad Klitchko, Angott: all fighers that could be methodical, even boring. But they won. Often at the expense of much more thrilling opponents. Many/All of those fighters weren't fully appreciated in their own time due to their style of fighting. Now consider Aaron Pryor....

If you wanna talk about footage that matters, and not trying to connect dots, we have footage of a faded Eder Jofre beating the SECOND BEST Bantamweight of all time TWICE. And returning at the relatively ancient age of 37 to beat Legra and then serve as the man to finally drop the curtain on Saldivar's epic title reign (by KO, no less).

Please look at the tape and tell me ONE thing Jofre did wrong, or one flaw in his package. I don't think there's a fighter who's laced up gloves at 122 lbs or below who could beat him.