Rocky Marciano is not a top ten all time heavyweight and I'll tell you why

[therealpugilist]

Ezzard Charles was Marciano's best win in my opinion. He was still young and very good. He was, however, a blown up light heavyweight and not a true heavy.

Walcott was old and so was Archie. I won't even bother bringing up the shell of Joe Louis.

All in all he had a 3+ year title reign with 6 successful defenses. A good career and it's an accomplishment to finish undefeated....but there have been more impressive championship runs in the division. And I think there have been several champions who would have beat him head-to-head, prime vs prime.

this post summed up my position. Charles was no spring chicken...over 90 fights and 3rd weight class.

Rocky had a good title reign, was a great fighter, was he a top ten all time heavyweight? not in my opinion

[therealpugilist]

Age is a little irrelevant when talking of the Old Mongoose, considering he would challenge for the heavyweight crown yet again and win the light heavyweight crown too. All this post Marciano.

In terms of Charles, who was a former title holder, Marciano was only a year younger at the time. Walcott of course was champ, so that fight was not to be avoided.

Moore was never an elite, top notch heavyweight...even a novice in HOFer Patterson blizted Moore quicker than the rock

Charles was a year younger with over 90 fights and over a decade as a pro on his odometer....its the amount of fights and punshiment taken, not age.

either way, he fought in an era of blown up light heavies and middleweights being top heavy challengers.

Skillwise, he is not that good to me. He was great for his era but he gets butchered by the best heavies ever.

[Ray Corso]

Ali
Holmes
Louis
Frazier
Wlad
Foreman
Tyson
Holyfield
Lewis
Jack Johnson



Wlad? What great skills did he have, being tall? He is the most over rated and one dimentional champ with longevity ever. He boxed in an equally light era as Marciano did!
Wlad vs Rocky/ Do you want to compare who was the crowd favorite? How about excitement?
Joe Frazier although an exciting fighter is also a one dimentional boxer who fought very few times and when he stepped up he didn't fare well.
Johnson was an inovator and far above his times in style & form but just because a man is a great in his era that doesn't include him as an ATG top ten in history.

Solid heavyweights with a history of success are capable of winning over anyone! Could Tyson beat Big George and vice versa......I guess so!
Frazier beats Ali, Ali beats Frazier. George beats Frazier, Ali beats George!
The variables are extensive in the "big boy class"!

Being a top twenty fighter in any division in the history of the sport is a HUGE accomplishment!

Ray

[therealpugilist]

Ali
Holmes
Louis
Frazier
Wlad
Foreman
Tyson
Holyfield
Lewis
Jack Johnson



Wlad? What great skills did he have, being tall? He is the most over rated and one dimentional champ with longevity ever. He boxed in an equally light era as Marciano did!
Wlad vs Rocky/ Do you want to compare who was the crowd favorite? How about excitement?
Joe Frazier although an exciting fighter is also a one dimentional boxer who fought very few times and when he stepped up he didn't fare well.
Johnson was an inovator and far above his times in style & form but just because a man is a great in his era that doesn't include him as an ATG top ten in history.

Solid heavyweights with a history of success are capable of winning over anyone! Could Tyson beat Big George and vice versa......I guess so!
Frazier beats Ali, Ali beats Frazier. George beats Frazier, Ali beats George!
The variables are extensive in the "big boy class"!

Being a top twenty fighter in any division in the history of the sport is a HUGE accomplishment!

Ray

you talking about top 20...I SAID HE IS NOT TOP TEN...THOSE ARE THE ELITE ALL TIME GREATS

Wlad was champion longer, fought more top contenders. Head to head would absolutely destroy this guy....look like a teenager vs a grown azz man.

wlad is one of the most dominant champions at heavy of all time

Wlad is an olympic gold medallist and worked a long time with emmanuel steward. One of the greatest trainers of all time. Taught him how to pace himself, how to use his size and utilize the clinch.


Facts are facts.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

You can only measure ones chin by who one got hit by...Marciano has fought fought 39 guys under 200 pounds who arent ranked up there as the hardest hitters ...not even remotely close. At least you're smarter than the clown above " marchegiano" whos little rant is quite not just amusing but one of the little fat kid with ADD disorder as I would picture him in real life.


Theres simply no evidance Marciano withstands a punch from Tyson. I would ima gine the first direct punch to the chin or temple causes a severe cut open and he gets pummeled. If he doesn't fall which ,lets be real even in the history section that's rare...would be the most likely scenerio.

Since we're being real let us not forget that Tyson didn't absolutely pummel anyone who wasn't afraid of him and I highly doubt Marciano would be scared. Also it's a very big step to say that someone who was never hurt in there career would be absolutely obliterated by other fighters.

[Ray Corso]

Wlad is an ordinary talent in a crappy era! If Marciano's suffers from a weak era why can't Wlad?
Does Wlad work in combination, have great defense, a solid chin, are his opponents ATG's? No no no no & NO!

Yes Manny saved him from being brutalized again and the guy hung in there for a long time, I give him credit for that.
Don't tell me he is a talent that puts him in with Louis and Ali and Holmes sorry I have eyes and I trained fighters for over 40 years. He is average in skill level
in a garbage era!

Charles was a heavyweight when he fought Marciano because that was contract when you fought the Heavyweight Champion! You people need to get over the weight of a man and try to learn about skill levels and heart!
There are 135 pound men who hit harder than middleweights.
There are 190lb men who will knockout 235lb men and it's happened throughout boxing history!

The emphasis on weight is brought up by people who refuse to learn the intangibles that can actually make the difference in a fight!

"Solid heavyweights with a history of success are capable of winning over anyone!"
That's my opinion when fans argue "who can beat who".

Don't tell me that Ron Lyle's punch flush to the jaw can't hurt any man, your nuts if you think it can't! Is he an ATG? No! So the best can beat the best on a given night those are the FACTS!

Man these topics just get repeated over and over again.
Amazing how no one knows who the greatest's bantamweights were! Oh thats right they all "weigh" the same hahahaha!!!!!

Ray

[HWChampion]

Wlad is an ordinary talent in a crappy era! If Marciano's suffers from a weak era why can't Wlad?
Does Wlad work in combination, have great defense, a solid chin, are his opponents ATG's? No no no no & NO!

Yes Manny saved him from being brutalized again and the guy hung in there for a long time, I give him credit for that.
Don't tell me he is a talent that puts him in with Louis and Ali and Holmes sorry I have eyes and I trained fighters for over 40 years. He is average in skill level
in a garbage era!

Charles was a heavyweight when he fought Marciano because that was contract when you fought the Heavyweight Champion! You people need to get over the weight of a man and try to learn about skill levels and heart!
There are 135 pound men who hit harder than middleweights.
There are 190lb men who will knockout 235lb men and it's happened throughout boxing history!

The emphasis on weight is brought up by people who refuse to learn the intangibles that can actually make the difference in a fight!

"Solid heavyweights with a history of success are capable of winning over anyone!"
That's my opinion when fans argue "who can beat who".

Don't tell me that Ron Lyle's punch flush to the jaw can't hurt any man, your nuts if you think it can't! Is he an ATG? No! So the best can beat the best on a given night those are the FACTS!

Man these topics just get repeated over and over again.
Amazing how no one knows who the greatest's bantamweights were! Oh thats right they all "weigh" the same hahahaha!!!!!

Ray

Yo Ray weren't you in Mike Tyson's corner with a shirt saying Ray Corso on? I swear i recognised you from the early days!

[The Old LefHook]

Wlad is an ordinary talent in a crappy era! If Marciano's suffers from a weak era why can't Wlad?
Does Wlad work in combination, have great defense, a solid chin, are his opponents ATG's? No no no no & NO!

Yes Manny saved him from being brutalized again and the guy hung in there for a long time, I give him credit for that.
Don't tell me he is a talent that puts him in with Louis and Ali and Holmes sorry I have eyes and I trained fighters for over 40 years. He is average in skill level
in a garbage era!

Charles was a heavyweight when he fought Marciano because that was contract when you fought the Heavyweight Champion! You people need to get over the weight of a man and try to learn about skill levels and heart!
There are 135 pound men who hit harder than middleweights.
There are 190lb men who will knockout 235lb men and it's happened throughout boxing history!

The emphasis on weight is brought up by people who refuse to learn the intangibles that can actually make the difference in a fight!

"Solid heavyweights with a history of success are capable of winning over anyone!"
That's my opinion when fans argue "who can beat who".

Don't tell me that Ron Lyle's punch flush to the jaw can't hurt any man, your nuts if you think it can't! Is he an ATG? No! So the best can beat the best on a given night those are the FACTS!

Man these topics just get repeated over and over again.
Amazing how no one knows who the greatest's bantamweights were! Oh thats right they all "weigh" the same hahahaha!!!!!

Ray

I doubt Vlad is even good enough to recapture his title from a bum like
Fury. When Fury gets by Vlad, then we will see if he goes after the guys who are bringing him to raging tears for stealing what he thinks is his glory, or stays with the easy continental challengers and keeps yammering.

Here is the test for Vlad. He and his brother are supposed to be phd's in sports science. They have vast combined ring experience. They are supposed to figure out how to beat this guy. I do not have any faith in their strategic abilities. One would think that a phd in sports science who has been a champion for ten years or more, could brainstrom with his wife and figure out you have to land more than five punches a round to win a championship fight. Why, Tyson Fury, he averaged all of seven per round. Wow! What a puncher. These guys are both mediocre. You have to root for Fury, though. The sooner he eliminates Vlad from the picture, the sooner someone can get to the business of eliminating him.

[therealpugilist]

Since we're being real let us not forget that Tyson didn't absolutely pummel anyone who wasn't afraid of him and I highly doubt Marciano would be scared. Also it's a very big step to say that someone who was never hurt in there career would be absolutely obliterated by other fighters.

Tyson losses were to much bigger fighters than Marciano, who hit much harder.

Holyfield was a smallish heavy but even he had 20+ pounds and several inches on Tyson and Rocky...Lewis and Douglass 6'4"-6'5" were huge skilled heavies.

Movement, clinching, jab and grab troubled tYSON, not squat fighters and the squat fighters he did face were blown away

Rocky gets blown out before stamina becomes a factor. Tyson would have 30 pounds on him and is stronger, faster, better defense, great chin.

[////]

Most of your ATG list wouldn't have fought at heavyweight. I assure you Jack Johnson and Joe Frazier if they wanted to compete nowadays would be 175/200 pounders (And IMO probably mediocre ones -- Who knows? They fought in a time when only 2 or 3 countries were in boxing. Easy to look good against a talent pool the size of a toughman competition.).