Ron Lyle = Underachiever

[Bennyhill]

If Vitali Klitschko didn't get cut against Lewis, if Pacquaio didn't get caught by that once in a lifetime punch by Marquez, etc. But he did and Lyle got stopped in both of those fights. Bruno was a more fluid fighter than Lyle, but his chin and stamina were lacking. Norton and (especially) Frazier were on an elite level by the time Lyle became a contender. A promoter can't force a "B side" opponent on anyone. The truth is that if Lyle had beaten Jerry Quarry in their 12 round eliminator, he would have been put on the fast track. But her was totally outclassed by a guy already beaten by Ali and Frazier, and just fell into a long list of contenders during a strong heavyweight era.

the funny thing about Jerry Quarry is that he was more of an underachiever than Lyle. Personal problems and management prevented Quarry from better showings against both Ali and Frazier. A peaking Quarry would have made it a 50/50 fight with Quarry having an ace shot at beating either one.

quarry absolutely beat the stuffing out of both Ron Lyle and Ernie shavers. However, they have their names mentioned far more than Quarry who is somewhat forgotten by the younger generation.

it's refreshing to see you mention him here without your bias for other fighters like Lyle.

[Scott9945]

the funny thing about Jerry Quarry is that he was more of an underachiever than Lyle. Personal problems and management prevented Quarry from better showings against both Ali and Frazier. A peaking Quarry would have made it a 50/50 fight with Quarry having an ace shot at beating either one.

quarry absolutely beat the stuffing out of both Ron Lyle and Ernie shavers. However, they have their names mentioned far more than Quarry who is somewhat forgotten by the younger generation.

it's refreshing to see you mention him here without your bias for other fighters like Lyle.

Unlike you, I don't see things in boxing in terms of black/white. Your racist agenda is totally transparent, so pleasing you means nothing to me.

[klompton]

Starting late had nothing to do with it!! So starting up earlier could of gave him better stamina to beat ali? Or better chin and bigger punch to beat foreman? Could starting earlier of helped get him norton and Frazier fights? Don't be ******, he was just very unlucky and was inches away from greatness .

What kind of moron thinks turning pro at 30 IS NOT a deficit? Most heavyweights are peaking at 30 and Lyle essentially had spend his prime years learning to fight in the pro ranks. Never mind the fact that despite his success as an amateur his actual experience was very limited. The guy was 34 years old when he lost to Ali and 35 when he lost to Foreman. Every other great fighter from that era was retired by that age or just knocking on the door of retirement but Im being ****** for suggesting that had Lyle started younger as an amateur and as a pro it would have only been to his benefit.

Kills me when people act like he was ducked by Frazier. You know the same Frazier that whipped Quarry's ass right after he schooled Lyle? The same Frazier that fought Foreman right after knocking out Lyle? The same Frazier that fought Ali five months after he knocked out Lyle? Looks to me like Frazier was actually fighting guys that were beating Lyles ass. Had Frazier fought Lyle instead of those guys you might have an argument that he was ducking tough fights but...

So yeah, with more experience and seasoning and a better grounding in the sport he might have won some that he lost, gone further, and as such forced some of those fights he missed out on.

[Bennyhill]

Unlike you, I don't see things in boxing in terms of black/white. Your racist agenda is totally transparent, so pleasing you means nothing to me.

it's unfortunate that you feel the need to play the race card at every angle. I understand this is a result of having nothing of substance to back your claims in a true debate. I'll stick to the facts, while you continue to play this overused card. Sad really.

[BattlingNelson]

Unlike you, I don't see things in boxing in terms of black/white. Your racist agenda is totally transparent, so pleasing you means nothing to me.

I think I know who it is.

[creekrat77]

Lyle is remembered for what he was and at this day in age few remember him. He is an underachiever in my eyes...well.. because he lost the fights that mattered. Wasn't he in prison before the Ali fight?

[Rspen46]

Lyle - No underachiever

No way he was an underachiever, how many guys could have started that late, had the problems he had in his life and then accomplish what he did, not many, so he achieved a lot, and yes if he had started earlier his natural ability would have been more well developed and of course it would have helped him and made him a better fighter and he would have fought more people in his era, but he did not, just as what if ALI had gone in the Military and fought exhibitions, what if Dempsey had won the 2nd fight over Tunney instead of standing there too long, the fight game as all sports are filled with what if's.

Lyle achieved all the he could have in my opinion, a very solid contender for his time for what he had and was able to do, underachiever is not giving him the benefit and the credit for what he did achieve, he did not beat Ali because he is the Greatest, he found a way to win, not Lyle the contender found away the Champ found a way, just as Foreman did, was it luck Foreman to beat Lyle, maybe it was in that fight, but it was a Champions luck, an ATG's luck, they find a way to get it done, that's why they are, who they are, and I agree Quarry was an underachiever not Lyle.

Lyle went as far as he could with what he had to work with, if anything he is an over achiever.

What if Greb & Dempsey had fought and wiped the floor with Langford would we be talking so much or at least some talking about how great Langford was, no we would not, what if Duran had stopped off and Knocked out Pryor or more realistically what if Pryor had accepted the money Duran did offer him but never got back in time with a timely answer and Duran moved on to WW, would we talk about Pryor as much, no, Duran would have knocked his cheating ass out, D. JOhnson and Kim and Cervantes and at least 3 other guys put Pryor on the floor, duran would have kept him there, so Boxing is filled with what if this or that, Lyle was a solid contender, I would love to have seen him fought the other great black fighters in the early years, Langford, whom he would beat, Jeannette, Mcvey Johnson, he might have beaten them all, with his size and strength who knows, it's another what if.

So give the guy the credit he is due, and don't call him an underachiever.

[billeau2]

Lyle today would do very well. At that time, guys who were naturals could get far but their lack of expereince would show because it was a strong division. Weaver had a similar situation.

I find the OP's point of view ironic because to my way of thinking Lyle's shortfall was exactly what one would expect: A guy who had some real strengths could not quite eek it out against guys who had more attributes. Today in a 12 round contest Lyle might actually have had even more success, but the more pressure applied, the more time in a match, where things can become exposed in a match, the more likely one will see the difference training and experience make in a fighter's career. For example, it took Louis 13 or so rounds to find Billy Conn... But Louis had the skills to hang in there and know he would have opportunities, he didn't really try to rush it.

I should mention Norton here. Norton was truly an exception to the rule. Norton was also very good at fighting Ali! so this gave him some points where a lack of experience might otherwise have been more pronounced.