Do you classify Duran as a Big Lightweight in his Prime

[them_apples]

You're comparing a fat, double chinned, pudgy fisted 60 year old to young, pro boxers and going by their comparative skull and fist size? Are you kidding?

You've seen what five or so years has done to Pacs head, from 126-147. Now imagine what it'll be like when he hasn't trained in decades and is an out of shape 60 year old.

Prime Duran at lightweight:

Significantly smaller in height, reach....and head size.

Many years later as a slightly out of shape 30 year old in between fights announcing his upcoming bout with Leonard:

Kind of looks like a smaller fighter vs a bigger fighter ie natural lightweight vs natural welterweight.

Cutting weight because you're a lazy, incredibly debaucherous, glutt is one thing. Cutting weight because you're naturally much too big is another. Duran was the first and had no problem with weight until later on when he became well known and partied madly. He fought at lightweight, weighing in as a lightweight, on the day, for a decade until his late twenties. That's not what happens to guys who struggle with weight because they are huge for the division. He struggled with weight later because he was fat from partying, and was able to cut large amounts quickly because he was naturally small.

Duran in his prime:



I consider Duran as a perfect sized lightweight. Strong, but lean and fast. Not very tall but not too short either. Just a good, natural size lightweight. Carried the weight pretty well to 140/147, though was just soft and pudgy at anything above, even soft at 147 if not trained properly.

He wasn't a big lightweight but he was stocky and thick boned. You showed a very young version of Duran, he was probably 22 years old, if we look at Pacquiao at 22 and he was a skinny little kid who probably would have only weighed 120 soaking wet if it wasn't for his thick legs.

You can see the SRL vs Duran 1 fight Duran was shorter, but stockier and stronger than an above average sized welterweight.

Duran was never a big guy, but he did grow into a stocky guy.

You are also talking about a time when boxing didn't really even use any form of weights, Pacquiao was eating 7000 calories a day (apparently) and hitting all sorts of strength conditioning during camp to have any form of strength at 147. Pacquiao would show up to camps skinny with lower muscle mass than by camps end. Duran was the exact opposite, showing up like Ricky Hatton 190 lbs.

what does this mean? Duran was an endomorph, Pacquiao an ecto-meso. Endo morphs are notoriously heavy boned.

Pacquiao was in his early 20's here, I never saw Duran look that slim, Pacquiao has the rib cage of a featherweight, but very athletic attributes (he probably was naturally a ripped guy).

by looking up the specs, Duran has the exact same frame size as Hatton if we go by your measuring standards. I'd probably agree with this, i just think Pacquiao is a weight class under these 2 naturally.

[Humean]

Name----------height--------wrist--------ankle

Duran-----------5'7 1/2"------6 1/4-------9 1/2
Pacquiao--------5'6 1/2"------8-----------11
Mayweather-----5'8"----------7-----------9 1/2
De La Hoya------5'10 1/2"-----7-----------7 1/2
Hatton----------5'7 1/2"------7------------10

There are of course some question marks on the accuracy of all these stats.

[New England]

Bradley has packed on more muscle then Pacquiao, but Pacquiaos frame is damn near the same if not bigger. His skull is huge and his hands and wrists are as well.

Bradley might have more natural mass (considering hes athletic and is on a vegan diet) but the same can be said that Pacquiao looked starved at 126 and even 130. He was 146 lbs against Marquez in their second fight. On fight night he still looked starved.

Mass generally goes up and down and can be tampered with, bone structure is the true definition of a mans size, and is an indication of his internals as well (lung size, organs, heart). These are what define big men. George Foreman was 217 lbs against Frazier and ended up well over 250 by his end career, he was always the biggest man in the ring.

Wladmir and Vitali are often thought to be the same size, I beg to differ, Vitali started his career 10-15 lbs heavier than Wladmir, this might explain why he can actually take a punch. Wladmir "lifted" his way into being a big man when in reality he's just a "tall" man (6'6 219 career start). (for a heavyweight speaking of course).

If you are born with muscle generally you are more comfortable walking around with the extra weight (Tyson and Duran).

considering you have boxed before (I think), I'm sure you can testify when sparring that you quickly figure out who the strong kids are, regardless of how 'jacked' some people are.

i never had any amateur fights, but i've sparred / trained in gyms in massachusetts and new york, both boxing and MMA. i'm a much more experienced weight lifter than boxer, actually.

bradley's actaully got a boiled down body, especially when he was at 140. i know that sounds funny, because he looks like he man, but it's the truth. look at his dad. look at bradley in between fights. bradley is not a small guy. he's just short. he brought most of that muscle with him to boxing. he didn't build it up in a gym with weight lifting.

i don't think bradley and pacquiao's bones are close to the same size. the eye test, as well as the scales during their careers back that up. it's quite obvious who is the larger, more robust man.

pacquiao started his career (admittedly as an impoverished teenager,) at around 100 lbs. he claims he weighed 98 lbs, and put some lead shot in his pockets to get him up to around 105 or so. he had what could have been a full, hall of fame career under 135 lbs. it's only to chase money that he's headed so high on the scales. he was 143 against marquez in '11. he was 138 against hatton. bradley has been at welterweight and jr welterweight for 10 years now.

[them_apples]

Name----------height--------wrist--------ankle

Duran-----------5'7 1/2"------6 1/4-------9 1/2
Pacquiao--------5'6 1/2"------8-----------11
Mayweather-----5'8"----------7-----------9 1/2
De La Hoya------5'10 1/2"-----7-----------7 1/2
Hatton----------5'7 1/2"------7------------10

There are of course some question marks on the accuracy of all these stats.

proving my point, going by this De la Hoya is the smallest man of the bunch, when in fact I'd say he's the biggest.

He's got a bigger rib cage, skull etc, what about the upper bones on the arm? the thighs? you can't only go by wrist, that might help with punching power and injury prevention. I'd say Mayweather is the smallest structured guy, small shoulders (width wise, not muscle wise) and hands, very agile because of it but generally a smaller boned guy.

[Scott9945]

Name----------height--------wrist--------ankle

Duran-----------5'7 1/2"------6 1/4-------9 1/2
Pacquiao--------5'6 1/2"------8-----------11
Mayweather-----5'8"----------7-----------9 1/2
De La Hoya------5'10 1/2"-----7-----------7 1/2
Hatton----------5'7 1/2"------7------------10

There are of course some question marks on the accuracy of all these stats.

I'm glad you added that disclaimer. It's not like a boxing commission oversees these measurements. The only true "official" measurement is their weight.

[Ham Porter]

Name----------height--------wrist--------ankle

Duran-----------5'7 1/2"------6 1/4-------9 1/2
Pacquiao--------5'6 1/2"------8-----------11
Mayweather-----5'8"----------7-----------9 1/2
De La Hoya------5'10 1/2"-----7-----------7 1/2
Hatton----------5'7 1/2"------7------------10

There are of course some question marks on the accuracy of all these stats.

The only realistic heights I see here are for Duran and Pacquiao. All the other guys are at least an inch shorter than what they're listed as here.

[Scott9945]

The only realistic heights I see here are for Duran and Pacquiao. All the other guys are at least an inch shorter than what they're listed as here.

The heights for Mayweather and De La Hoya are accurate.

[Mikhnienko]

Bradley has packed on more muscle then Pacquiao, but Pacquiaos frame is damn near the same if not bigger. His skull is huge and his hands and wrists are as well.

Bradley might have more natural mass (considering hes athletic and is on a vegan diet) but the same can be said that Pacquiao looked starved at 126 and even 130. He was 146 lbs against Marquez in their second fight. On fight night he still looked starved.

Mass generally goes up and down and can be tampered with, bone structure is the true definition of a mans size, and is an indication of his internals as well (lung size, organs, heart). These are what define big men. George Foreman was 217 lbs against Frazier and ended up well over 250 by his end career, he was always the biggest man in the ring.

Wladmir and Vitali are often thought to be the same size, I beg to differ, Vitali started his career 10-15 lbs heavier than Wladmir, this might explain why he can actually take a punch. Wladmir "lifted" his way into being a big man when in reality he's just a "tall" man (6'6 219 career start). (for a heavyweight speaking of course).

If you are born with muscle generally you are more comfortable walking around with the extra weight (Tyson and Duran).

considering you have boxed before (I think), I'm sure you can testify when sparring that you quickly figure out who the strong kids are, regardless of how 'jacked' some people are.

Wlad turned pro at age 20 and Vitali 25 he hadn't finished maturing physically yet. I agree with what you're saying just a poor example.

[Humean]

proving my point, going by this De la Hoya is the smallest man of the bunch, when in fact I'd say he's the biggest.

He's got a bigger rib cage, skull etc, what about the upper bones on the arm? the thighs? you can't only go by wrist, that might help with punching power and injury prevention. I'd say Mayweather is the smallest structured guy, small shoulders (width wise, not muscle wise) and hands, very agile because of it but generally a smaller boned guy.

De La Hoya has at least 3 inches of height over the rest, thus even though his wrist and ankles are slightly smaller he is around the same size as these other men.

The wrist and ankles (plus elbow breadth) are important (along with height), and the others not important, because they give the most accurate determination of the size of the bones whereas all the rest of the measurements include fat and muscle.

[Nagabilly]

I was just wondering what does size mean in terms of boxing.. guys I'm 5'7'' with 7" wrist and 10.5" ankles, how would you classify me size-wise?