Why could past ATGs knock out guys 40 pounds bigger than them...

[Ray Corso]

Joe Louis could punch and punch harder than anyone Wlad fought! Wlad has been hit and has been hurt, what happens when Louis slips inside that long obvious jab and starts landing his under/over combos on Wlad? Do you actually think that Wlad can keep Joe from landing? Seriously if Haye could land a couple I'll assume Joe can land also, Haye is nothing compared to Louis.

What techniques does Wlad exhibit that are executed better than Louis displays?
Another thing, Louis isn't as slow as you think, he's a stepper and he can judge range very well. Wlad uses his jab as a finder and looks to drop right hands other than that he does little to nothing! He can't fight inside and if he's backed up he's in trouble. Manny taught him to step out and without that he would have been in trouble, the same trouble Louis was in whem Max found that Joe was "rowing" his left off his jab!
They ALL make mistakes but to me Louis is more complete and no one ever exams the senerio when Louis slips inside Wlad!!!!! Wlad has never been hit the way Louis can hit, at 200lbs if anyone thinks that Louis can't crack you don't know anything about punch techniques. His is the best of any heavy to date! Please don't suggest that Wlads technique is better than Joe Louis, that would be ridiculous.
Top ten guys from most era's could hurt just about anyone! Thats why they call the divisuion "heavies" not just weight but punching heavy too. Ray

[Humean]

That is hilarious ...

You speak of Louis' supposed weak competition and then you don't mention Ali or Foreman, no , you mention Wladimir Klitschko!.

Watch some tape, everybody with eyes can see that Baer, Simon and Carnera were much better than the likes of Wach, Pianeta, DaVarryl Williamson etc. etc.

And Louis would struggle to take Wlad's punch?. Louis was no Sam Peter, he would finish you. Wlad suffered knock out losses to Sanders and Brewster yet Louis is the one to struggle?.

Your first 'point' makes no sense, my point was not to demean Joe Louis' record nor to suggest that it is weaker than Wlad Klitschko's. You have misunderstood.

I have watched the video, they were not much better than the guys you listed. They are all veritable bums that only heavyweight boxing can produce as world championship opponents.

Joe Louis was significantly lighter than Wlad and was knocked down by quite a few opponents including being sparked out by Schmeling. He would not take Wlad's power, that is fairly obvious. Wlad would get knocked out by Louis's punches too, he just might fail to get close enough to land.

[StarshipTrooper]

No you are very ******ed. I explained why any comparison between the evolution in boxing is irrelevant. How do you know these things have greatly improved in boxing? Do you have any proof/ Or is it mere conjecture? The speed and power you speak of in those sports do not have the same meaning as speed and power in boxing, you are the one who has failed to understand.

It gives me a chuckle watching the kiddies trying to big up athleticism when of all the major sports boxing is the one where athleticism has the LEAST impact :chuckle9:

[Humean]

Joe Louis could punch and punch harder than anyone Wlad fought! Wlad has been hit and has been hurt, what happens when Louis slips inside that long obvious jab and starts landing his under/over combos on Wlad? Do you actually think that Wlad can keep Joe from landing? Seriously if Haye could land a couple I'll assume Joe can land also, Haye is nothing compared to Louis.

What techniques does Wlad exhibit that are executed better than Louis displays?
Another thing, Louis isn't as slow as you think, he's a stepper and he can judge range very well. Wlad uses his jab as a finder and looks to drop right hands other than that he does little to nothing! He can't fight inside and if he's backed up he's in trouble. Manny taught him to step out and without that he would have been in trouble, the same trouble Louis was in whem Max found that Joe was "rowing" his left off his jab!
They ALL make mistakes but to me Louis is more complete and no one ever exams the senerio when Louis slips inside Wlad!!!!! Wlad has never been hit the way Louis can hit, at 200lbs if anyone thinks that Louis can't crack you don't know anything about punch techniques. His is the best of any heavy to date! Please don't suggest that Wlads technique is better than Joe Louis, that would be ridiculous.
Top ten guys from most era's could hurt just about anyone! Thats why they call the divisuion "heavies" not just weight but punching heavy too. Ray

I think Haye's power is comparable to Louis's. Haye competed by fighting excessively cautious. Louis would presumably fight his usual stalking style, he was slow on his feet, I don't know why people can't admit this about him. You are grossly overrating Louis's defence, he would struggle to defend against that long powerful and fairly quick Wlad jab. Could he slip the jab and then knock out Wlad? Of course he could but it is not obviously that this is the most likely scenario in this fantasy match up. Wlad has shown himself to be well adept at clinching and holding on the inside, Wlad is undoubtedly stronger than Louis. Wlad is something of a one trick pony but this trick is pretty damn effective.

[Ray Corso]

You talk as if Schmeling was a bad fighter! Joe was a young contender who got schooled by a veteran performer. Whats Wlad excuse or reason for being beaten by the fellows who whipped him?
Might not get close enough..................it might rain too!
When BSing about fantasty fights try to vision the fighters at their BEST!
Not your favorite at his best and the other guy KO'd hahahaha!!!

Someone who thinks Wlad is the superior fighter please chime in and tell me how his techniques are superior?

Does his size negate Louis's techniques? If you want to talk REAL boxing then get into methods & techniques the intangeables are tuffer to debate!
The biggest intangeable to me is Louis's will to win. Not that Wlad doesn't come to win, he does! I don't question his heart he has one and he's trying all the time!!
Both can hurt each other but thats true for 80% of heavy fights.
Ray

[Humean]

It gives me a chuckle watching the kiddies trying to big up athleticism when of all the major sports boxing is the one where athleticism has the LEAST impact :chuckle9:

It does not follow from this that it has ZERO impact.

[Humean]

You talk as if Schmeling was a bad fighter! Joe was a young contender who got schooled by a veteran performer. Whats Wlad excuse or reason for being beaten by the fellows who whipped him?
Might not get close enough..................it might rain too!
When BSing about fantasty fights try to vision the fighters at their BEST!
Not your favorite at his best and the other guy KO'd hahahaha!!!

Someone who thinks Wlad is the superior fighter please chime in and tell me how his techniques are superior?

Does his size negate Louis's techniques? If you want to talk REAL boxing then get into methods & techniques the intangeables are tuffer to debate!
The biggest intangeable to me is Louis's will to win. Not that Wlad doesn't come to win, he does! I don't question his heart he has one and he's trying all the time!!
Both can hurt each other but thats true for 80% of heavy fights.
Ray

My point about the Schmeling knockout was to illustrate that his chin was not highly impressive, nothing more or less than that very point. Wlad's chin is probably even less impressive. Louis's punching technique cannot be in question, it is about as perfect as it gets but his foot speed and movement is what I consider deficient.

[Suckmedry]

This debate just always goes in circles, i believe as with most things the truth lies somewhere in the middle, yes there has been some improvements in technology that help todays fighters, but conversely there has been quite a bit of skill lost that was common in previous eras, there is far less cagey, defensively adept guys who roll with punches, lead you into counters and know all the intricate nuances of the game like so many guys did back then.

[StarshipTrooper]

It does not follow from this that it has ZERO impact.

Nor does it follow that it has anywhere near the impact you're making out.

[Ray Corso]

1moround..........true statement......very accurate too.........the main reason is that the men from the past who were "full time" fought twice a month and some every week to 10 days for three or four years out of their 12 to 16 year careers. Mixed in these schedules was a match 3 or 4 times a year against contenders. Theres no gym time that takes the place of fight time!
The modern day fighters fought 65 to 200 times, the current accomplished fighters retire with 50 to 60 over the same period of time.
Not sure how
"more modern training techniques" apply!!! Experience in boxing is a huge advantage right down to the "trial horses"!! Nothing takes the place of practical experiences.
Ray