Are We Sure Ali Was Better Than Louis?

[Hop]

Just watched a chronicling of the boxing exploits of Joe Louis. I'm not going to take the time/space here to enumerate all the specific points, but it made me seriously question the oft-repeated mantra that "Muhammad Ali is the greatest heavyweight of all-time". Really? Personally, I'm not so sure.

What do y'all think? Does anyone out there place Joe Louis ahead? I'd like to hear the reasons fans of the sport feel as they do. Obviously Ali benefits greatly from his fighting in a more recent era of color film footage and greater general visibility, etc. but I was just wondering if anyone else had thoughts along the lines of this Louis/Ali comparison.

If you can find the time, thanks.

[GeneralZod]

I love both, but i rate Joe above Muhammad.

[K-DOGG]

Just watched a chronicling of the boxing exploits of Joe Louis. I'm not going to take the time/space here to enumerate all the specific points, but it made me seriously question the oft-repeated mantra that "Muhammad Ali is the greatest heavyweight of all-time". Really? Personally, I'm not so sure.

What do y'all think? Does anyone out there place Joe Louis ahead? I'd like to hear the reasons fans of the sport feel as they do. Obviously Ali benefits greatly from his fighting in a more recent era of color film footage and greater general visibility, etc. but I was just wondering if anyone else had thoughts along the lines of this Louis/Ali comparison.

If you can find the time, thanks.

As a huge Ali fan, I will acknowledge that Joe Louis was a better boxer, and harder puncher, and more technically sound than my guy. And, admittedly, when I occasionally sit down and rank the top heavies of all time, I find myself wanting to put Louis in the top slot.....only to remove him after ****ing my head against a wall.

It's a tough call; but I feel Louis and Ali vie for the top slot and depending on which day you ask me, I'll give you a different answer. Louis's 4-round destruction of Max Baer (who was not a good boxer) 4 months after losing his title is probably the most impressive victory he had. There were other really good fighters he'd beaten before and after: Schmeling, Nova, Pastor, Burman, Conn (light-heavy, I know...but showed character), Mauriello, Simon etc.

Unfortunately, most modern fans remember Louis for the "bum of the month" club. They weren't all bums. And it takes a special set of gonads to hold the heavyweight title for as long as he did and lose only once near his prime, only to avenge it in a most brutal manor.

Head to head, I think Ali wins. I believe this largely due to the difficulty Louis had with Conn in the first fight. Ali was at least as fast as Conn and hit a lot harder; but, of course, this is all conjecture.

You don't make 25 title defenses and get overlooked haphazardly; not in a world where there's any justice. While, as an Ali fan, I could have some nice spirited conversations/discussions with anyone who says Louis was greater, in reality........I have to admit they have a point. He deserves to be considered. He earned it.

[joseph5620]

I love both, but i rate Joe above Muhammad.

Ali fought much better competition. That's why I rate him over Louis.

[Tommo1]

So we're willing to consider that Clay might not have been as good as 1930's Louis but cannot get our heads around him maybe not being as great as Lewis or a Klitschko?? Hmmm. Strange world.

I wonder if Mike Tyson would have been able to handle himself against Jack Broughton of the 1700's?? Surely Tyson could never put em together with such a devastating opponent as old Jack?? LOL

[BKM-2010]

Ali fought much better competition. That's why I rate him over Louis.

My biggest reason as well. And as far as Louis being a better boxer, I rate Ali far higher in terms of head to head matchups as well. In fact I can't think of any heavyweight who would fare better against all the ATG's than ALi would.

[K-DOGG]

So we're willing to consider that Clay might not have been as good as 1930's Louis but cannot get our heads around him maybe not being as great as Lewis or a Klitschko?? Hmmm. Strange world.

I wonder if Mike Tyson would have been able to handle himself against Jack Broughton of the 1700's?? Surely Tyson could never put em together with such a devastating opponent as old Jack?? LOL

Tyson actually would have done well under the old London Prize Ring Rules....'cept they didn't allow biting back then either.


OHHHHHHHHH!!!


sorry, couldn't resist.

[Hop]

As a huge Ali fan, I will acknowledge that Joe Louis was a better boxer, and harder puncher, and more technically sound than my guy . . . It's a tough call.

^^ This alone boosts my respect for K-DOGG -- that he is seeking to be objective enough to at least question what his 'heart' most desires to be true. Props, KD. Makes me want to give greater attention to your posts.

[joseph5620]

^^ This alone boosts my respect for K-DOGG -- that he is seeking to be objective enough to at least question what his 'heart' most desires to be true. Props, KD. Makes me want to give greater attention to your posts.

Liston, Foreman, Frazier. Three fighters who are generally considered to be among the 10 best heavyweights of all time. Louis does not have a single win over anybody on that level. This analysis is from my brain. Not my heart.

[Hop]

Liston, Foreman, Frazier. Three fighters who are generally considered to be among the 10 best heavyweights of all time. Louis does not have a single win over anybody on that level. This analysis is from my brain. Not my heart.

?? My post had nothing to do with yours; just making a positive comment on what I felt was admirable in KD's.