Tommy Hearns was sadly underrated...

[SCtrojansbaby]

In his prime Hearns lost only three times: One to an ATG top-3 Welter in Ray Leonard (in which he spent the vast majority of the fight jabbing his way to a big points lead), one out of his ideal weight-class to an ATG top-5 Middleweight (who wouldn't LET Hearns box his way out of trouble), and one out of his ideal weight-class against a pretty big puncher who was really a Light-Heavy fighting at Middle. Exactly which fights did he lose is Hearns supposed to have jabbed his way to victory? When you're facing another ATG like Leonard or Hagler THEY I have a good deal of say over what you can or can't do. I daresay Floyd Mayweather, when facing an opponent of Leonard or Hagler's caliber is NOT going to dictate the fight to them. At very least an ATG fighter of their caliber is going to have at least as much to say over what happens in the fight as he does.

Poet

He could of jabbed/held in both Leonard fights and in both Barkley but its just in his DNA to fight fire with fire.

[JAB5239]

Show me a fight where Hearns got hurt then pulled off and stayed out side and jabbed/hold the rest of the fight not getting caught up in trading again? Not doing what I just explained for sure cost him both Leonard fights and both Barkley fights.

The first Leonard fight Hearns tried to hold. See at 1:20 of this vid.



The first Barkley fight, which could have been waived off after the initial knockdown, Hearns tried to hold. See 8:15 0f this video.

I can tell you about Hearns broken left hand in the second Barkley fight if you'd like me to?




I can show you round twelve of the second Leonard fight with Hearns trying to clinch if you'd like. A fight in which he was robbed in by the way.

Also no one is labeling his whole career because he lost to Leonard and Hagler. But to pretend like he didn't have a few really bad flaws is just naive.

No, when you don't distinguish a few moments from an entire career you leave the door open for things to be interpreted the way they where not only by myself, but others as well. And to pretend a fighter has "really bad flaws" without taking who said fighter was in the ring with is just naive in my opinion.

[SCtrojansbaby]

I am not talking about holding once or twice I am talking about holding/jabbing from the outside for the duration of the fight. If you watch the videos you posted you'll see Hearns tries and holds a few times but then get caught in a fire fight again soon after.

Also another example is the 12th round of Leonard Hearns 2 where Hearns does a very good job of holding and moving/jabbing in the 1st minute of the round but once Leonard gets him with one big shot he doesn't stay with it

Notice at about 1:02 in the video(not the round) Hearns gets hit with a big right hand Leonard falls in and Hearns pushes off... Why push off why not wrap your arms around Leonard and let the ref separate you?

Similar mistakes are made throughout the round where Hearns lets go off the clinch just because the ref told him to, when he should of made the ref separate and get in between so you have space to move. Example at about 1:24 in the video Hearns clinches and leans on him(RIGHT) then the ref tells him to work your way out and Hearns lets go(WRONG) and Leonard is immediately in range and hits him with 4 left hands in a row and Hearns backs up in to the corner and holds and lets the ref separate(RIGHT) but instead of using that opportunity to move to his left and jab he just stays in the corner(WRONG) and lets Leonard tee off on him for the next TWENTY FIVE SECONDS before he holds again

these are the mistakes/warrior instincts that cost him so much.



Also I know Hearns was fighting with 1 hand most of the 2nd Barkley fight, just means he should of held/circled more often

and I will say it again Hearns is a clear ATG he just had some deadly flaws that caused him to be very susceptible to certain styles.

[beckya]

I think it was the losses to Hagler a Ray that took away his status a bit. But he brought the fight in no matter who he was fighting.

[JAB5239]

I am not talking about holding once or twice I am talking about holding/jabbing from the outside for the duration of the fight. If you watch the videos you posted you'll see Hearns tries and holds a few times but then get caught in a fire fight again soon after.

Also another example is the 12th round of Leonard Hearns 2 where Hearns does a very good job of holding and moving/jabbing in the 1st minute of the round but once Leonard gets him with one big shot he doesn't stay with it

Notice at about 1:02 in the video(not the round) Hearns gets hit with a big right hand Leonard falls in and Hearns pushes off... Why push off why not wrap your arms around Leonard and let the ref separate you?

Similar mistakes are made throughout the round where Hearns lets go off the clinch just because the ref told him to, when he should of made the ref separate and get in between so you have space to move. Example at about 1:24 in the video Hearns clinches and leans on him(RIGHT) then the ref tells him to work your way out and Hearns lets go(WRONG) and Leonard is immediately in range and hits him with 4 left hands in a row and Hearns backs up in to the corner and holds and lets the ref separate(RIGHT) but instead of using that opportunity to move to his left and jab he just stays in the corner(WRONG) and lets Leonard tee off on him for the next TWENTY FIVE SECONDS before he holds again

these are the mistakes/warrior instincts that cost him so much.



Also I know Hearns was fighting with 1 hand most of the 2nd Barkley fight, just means he should of held/circled more often

and I will say it again Hearns is a clear ATG he just had some deadly flaws that caused him to be very susceptible to certain styles.

So you think Hearns should fight like Wlad every time he gets hit? I've shown he held at times when he needed to, but you don't seem to understand the other fighter (especially another ATG) has a say in how a fight is dictated. To call these things "deadly flaws" is a pure exaggeration since it rarely occurred in his career. And to come off like you know how he should have fought better than his trainer, who catered to his strengths is disingenuous and comical in my opinion.

[THE REED]

I don't think he's underrated at all?

[greynotsoold]

When the first Hearns/Barkley fight happened, and this is a true story, I cleaned up because I picked Barkley and the 3rd round. My feeling was that because Barkley was easy to hit, Hearns would stand and fight with him and that Barkley could take Tommy's punches longer than Hearns could take his.
I hadn't seen that fight since then, until I watched it a minute ago, where it was posted above and some things I noticed. One, that fight wasn't as one-sided as it is typically portrayed. Barkley is losing and bleeding but he is landind good punches all along. Two, about halfway through the second round Barkley lands some heavy body punches and Tommy's legs seem to be a little funny thereafter. Third, watch Tommy in the last half minute before he goes down. He's all spraddle legged trying to set himself for the left hook to the body, and his legs are practically gone by the time the right hand clips him and knocks him down.
Tommy Hearns, in my opinion, was a good fighter, always in shape and with a left jab that could control a fight and a right hand that was very potent. He wasn't a great fighter. Watch his fight with DeWitt; his legs abandon him after a 7th round body shot. Watch the Olijade fight; Tommy has him ready to go in the 9th catches a left hook from a guy out on his feet and his legs go. If Olijade had been alert enough to see it, he'd have won that fight because Tommy never recovered.

[SCtrojansbaby]

So you think Hearns should fight like Wlad every time he gets hit? I've shown he held at times when he needed to, but you don't seem to understand the other fighter (especially another ATG) has a say in how a fight is dictated. To call these things "deadly flaws" is a pure exaggeration since it rarely occurred in his career. And to come off like you know how he should have fought better than his trainer, who catered to his strengths is disingenuous and comical in my opinion.

Not so much like Wlad more like Haye during the Valuev fight or Andre Dirrell vs everybody constant movement but add the jab and hold when he gets inside the jab.

In only 1 of the 4 fights I am talking about was he really fighting an ATG level opponent and that was the first Leonard fight and if you want to argue that Leonard was just better on that night and it wasn't the flaws I can buy that. So lets focus on 3 fights Barkley 1, Barkley 2 and Leonard 2 correct me if I am wrong those were all fights Hearns was heavily favored in. Hearns warrior instincts is what did him in he had the ability to dictate those fights(yes even with 1 hand against Barkley that's still a fight Hearns should have dictated)

P.S Didn't Barkley break his hand in that fight also?

[Mintcar923]

Not so much like Wlad more like Haye during the Valuev fight or Andre Dirrell vs everybody constant movement but add the jab and hold when he gets inside the jab.

In only 1 of the 4 fights I am talking about was he really fighting an ATG level opponent and that was the first Leonard fight and if you want to argue that Leonard was just better on that night and it wasn't the flaws I can buy that. So lets focus on 3 fights Barkley 1, Barkley 2 and Leonard 2 correct me if I am wrong those were all fights Hearns was heavily favored in. Hearns warrior instincts is what did him in he had the ability to dictate those fights(yes even with 1 hand against Barkley that's still a fight Hearns should have dictated)

P.S Didn't Barkley break his hand in that fight also?

Hearns was not favored in the 2nd Leonard fight. If you guys really wannna get that technical and say that an ATG was not on an ATG level on a particular night?! The Fab Four(Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, and Duran) were not exactly old geezers when they fought each other between '80-'90. I guess we all will have our opinion on which fighter was the best. It is possible that each fight between them could have gone a different way depending on the night. But, IMO Hearns was the most naturally gifted of the four...

[SCtrojansbaby]

Hearns was not favored in the 2nd Leonard fight.

You sure?