It's not so much size that matters, rather Style.

[CarlosG815]

Apples, I could not agree with you more. Watching all the greats of the past, it never mattered, and there were none of those divisions inbetween. If you weighed over 135, you fought at Welterweight, and if you were over 147, you fought at middleweight, and heavyweights of 180 pounds were fighting guys who weighed 200, 250, and more pounds.

I find that argument so ridiculous and for somebody like me who has idolized smaller men like Tyson, Frazier and Dempsey, it is laughable that many fans today think this guy or that guy would be "too big."

It's all about the style. To me, fighting Mike Tyson or Joe Frazier, Wlad or Vitali's height is a DISADVANTAGE because those guys used their height to their advantage so well.

I notice though that most of these guys are die hard Lennox/Vitali/Wlad fans. It's the same argument from these people everytime "Lennox/Wlad/Vitali would be too big, too strong for Tyson/Dempsey/Frazier." I believe it is simply not true, but rather the speed of the smaller man when compared to the bigger man is more dangerous, considering those smaller men can hit as hard as the bigger men.

Now if those super heavies were as fast as the smaller guys, that may pose a problem.

I agree fully with you Apples, and whenever talking fantasy fights if people start saying another guy is "too big" for another guy I will usually not even respond to that person because they're not worth the time.

And I have kind of gone the poet route lately when thinking about fighters. People want to say "Well his best weight was 135 he wasn't effective at 140" and I'm starting to think that's a crock, because in the old days you had legit lightweights fighting with a much bigger gap with less weight classes being around. You'd never hear one of them use the excuse that the other guy "had 5 pounds on me." so why should we use it for them?

Although, in some cases, some guys come up from such a low weight that they're just not effective at another weight and that's the exception. Arguello starting off at 118 and having his best days at 126-130, and not being effective at 140 is one thing, but Ricky Hatton being effective at 140 and then getting totally blown out at 147 is another thing, and I don't think we can use the excuse for him that 147 is the reason he lost to Floyd when he fought at 140 his entire career.

[StarshipTrooper]

Apples, I could not agree with you more. Watching all the greats of the past, it never mattered, and there were none of those divisions inbetween. If you weighed over 135, you fought at Welterweight, and if you were over 147, you fought at middleweight, and heavyweights of 180 pounds were fighting guys who weighed 200, 250, and more pounds.

I find that argument so ridiculous and for somebody like me who has idolized smaller men like Tyson, Frazier and Dempsey, it is laughable that many fans today think this guy or that guy would be "too big."

It's all about the style. To me, fighting Mike Tyson or Joe Frazier, Wlad or Vitali's height is a DISADVANTAGE because those guys used their height to their advantage so well.

I notice though that most of these guys are die hard Lennox/Vitali/Wlad fans. It's the same argument from these people everytime "Lennox/Wlad/Vitali would be too big, too strong for Tyson/Dempsey/Frazier." I believe it is simply not true, but rather the speed of the smaller man when compared to the bigger man is more dangerous, considering those smaller men can hit as hard as the bigger men.

Now if those super heavies were as fast as the smaller guys, that may pose a problem.

I agree fully with you Apples, and whenever talking fantasy fights if people start saying another guy is "too big" for another guy I will usually not even respond to that person because they're not worth the time.

And I have kind of gone the poet route lately when thinking about fighters. People want to say "Well his best weight was 135 he wasn't effective at 140" and I'm starting to think that's a crock, because in the old days you had legit lightweights fighting with a much bigger gap with less weight classes being around. You'd never hear one of them use the excuse that the other guy "had 5 pounds on me." so why should we use it for them?

Although, in some cases, some guys come up from such a low weight that they're just not effective at another weight and that's the exception. Arguello starting off at 118 and having his best days at 126-130, and not being effective at 140 is one thing, but Ricky Hatton being effective at 140 and then getting totally blown out at 147 is another thing, and I don't think we can use the excuse for him that 147 is the reason he lost to Floyd when he fought at 140 his entire career.

The truth is, if someone for example is a natural Lightweight and they want to move up and fight Welters they're better off fighting those Welters while weighing their natural weight: Adding extra weight to make yourself "bigger" usually just slows you down, dulls your reflexes, and makes you less effective a fighter. You simply aren't going to increase your punch resistance by adding an extra 10 pounds or so and you're NOT going to make yourself a bigger puncher.

Poet

[them_apples]

If you're talking about Juan Manuel Marquez, he would probably go into a Maidana fight the betting favorite.

not if he was coming from 130. He'd get dropped perhaps by Maidana but his hand speed/counter punching ability would shred Maidana up

[them_apples]

The truth is, if someone for example is a natural Lightweight and they want to move up and fight Welters they're better off fighting those Welters while weighing their natural weight: Adding extra weight to make yourself "bigger" usually just slows you down, dulls your reflexes, and makes you less effective a fighter. You simply aren't going to increase your punch resistance by adding an extra 10 pounds or so and you're NOT going to make yourself a bigger puncher.

Poet

Natural growth and filling out can increase punching power. but not artificial weight gain. (so I'm agreeing with you).

Duran at 147 and up was at his man's body, at LW he often still looked like a young lad for example.

Marquez going from 130 - 147 was purely just weight gain however, his skeletal structure was exactly the same.

If anyone wants to bring up Pacquiao, he fights at 148, 149 tops. when he fought Marquez at 130, he was 146 lbs. thats hardly weight gain if you ask me.

[gatorDelux]

this is a good thread

but all these points arent new to me...

i never thought size was that huge of a factor.

[StarshipTrooper]

this is a good thread

but all these points arent new to me...

i never thought size was that huge of a factor.

Yeah, but you've seen some of the size whores slink over here from NSB. To them boxing boils down to "the bigger dude wins". Bogus to say the least.

Poet

[CarlosG815]

this is a good thread

but all these points arent new to me...

i never thought size was that huge of a factor.

Go to ********boxing and check the classic forums. The size whores over there have Lennox Lewis beating every ATG Heavy based solely on size without even taking into account the difference in training and nutrition.

Same goes for Wlad and Vitali over there. They beat everybody. "Too big, too strong." It's the same thing over and over.

[gatorDelux]

Yeah, but you've seen some of the size whores slink over here from NSB. To them boxing boils down to "the bigger dude wins". Bogus to say the least.

Poet

it can be argued that the bigger man wins when they have the same style and equal skills

but skills and style come first

i would like to see this posted in NSB

[gatorDelux]

Go to ********boxing and check the classic forums. The size whores over there have Lennox Lewis beating every ATG Heavy based solely on size without even taking into account the difference in training and nutrition.

Same goes for Wlad and Vitali over there. They beat everybody. "Too big, too strong." It's the same thing over and over.

some times i got to nsb and all i read is "timmy! jimmy! timmy! jimmy! ******* ***** klitlicker"

[StarshipTrooper]

some times i got to nsb and all i read is "timmy! jimmy! timmy! jimmy! ******* ***** klitlicker"

South Park.....TIMMAY :chuckle9: