Ali vs. Louis- Tale Of The Tape (Comparisons)

[butterfly1964]

You know, i don't know if im gonna post more and more because nothing i say will convince your mind. You're blinded by love.



How come its allright for you guys to say Ali's losses were because he wasn't in his prime is ok even though a lot of fighters have had the same thing. Tyson annyone? i remember you saying he had a short prime. If that's true then Ali wasn't ''great'' for a long time either.

Walcott did NOT beat Louis. He had his moments in the fight but that doesn't mean he won. Louis was throwing combo's the whole fight and clearly got the best of him. I might wanna point out that Norton might have been robbed twice by Ali huh.



Stanley Poreda 208
Biff Bennett 200
Gene Stanton 215
Primo Carnera 260½ (This guy was huge and still got KO'd)
King Levinsky 197¾
Max Baer 210
Paolino Uzcudun 207
Charley Retzlaff 198½
Jack Sharkey 197¼
Jorge Brescia 205½
Eddie Simms 195
Steve Ketchel 216
Natie Brown 199½
Jim Braddock 197
Tommy Farr 204¼
Harry Thomas 196
Jack Roper 204¾
Tony Galento 233¾ (Big guy crushed in 4 rounds)
Arturo Godoy 202
Abe Simon 254½
Tony Musto 199½
Buddy Baer 237½ (250 in the rematch)
Lou Nova 202½
Abe Simon 255¼

Tired of getting owned? Still think Joe crushed little guys? You know more about Ali than me but i sure as hell know more about than Louis than you.

And your other statements, check my earlier post. I explained why Joe would hurt Ali.



Take it easy buddy. Im not insulting Ali, i ust don't see him beating Louis. I love Ali but too so don't think im putting him down for whatever reason. We're just discussing.

ali's losses weren't in his prime cause they weren't, it's common sense. i don't know how not fighting for nearly 4 years, and then having 2 fights, one of them three rounds, and then after losing when clearly he wasn't ready and he was really slower than usual means you are in your prime. "he's 29, so he's in his prime." yeah, if he was allowed to fight up until that time he would have been in his prime. but he wasn't so that was not his prime, obviously. tyson was in his prime when he lost to douglass, he was only 23. he didn't train, does that mean he wasn't prime? i mean you can say after he came out of jail he wasn't prime, cause he was forced not to fight but in the douglass fight he was outclassed.

did i say that louis couldn't beat big guys idiot? no, i didn't. i said that louis couldn't beat a fast-moving big guy, because he barely beat the fast-moving smaller ones. is abe simon fast-moving? nope, he sure isn't. is buddy baer, primo carnera, or tony galento fast-moving? nooooo! so, no you didn't own me, you basically owned yourself on that one.

[butterfly1964]

SOME BUTTERFLY CLASSICS...

"He proved to the world that he's the greatest..."

This is because he told everybody this part after beating a 35+ Sonny Liston.

"Many people call him the greatest..."

That's because he told everybody to call him this.

"He beat the greatest competition..."

He beat a handful of big names, but the remainder of his resume is just as shabby as any other champion in question.

"I know more about Muhammad Ali than you do..."

This doesn't make you the resident authority on the man; especially since there are people here who have been studying boxing since you were born.

I'm not ragging on you butterfly, but these were obviously comments made from your heart instead of from facts, so stop telling everybody else to do the opposite. It's clear that there are many flaws on both sides of this platter.

My prediction in short: Louis wins first fight. It's the only chance he's got. Ali wins fights two and three easily. He probably barely loses the first, and only because of some late round shenanigans. Or possibly because Louis gets incredible gift decisions (vs. Walcott). Ali's victories are probably clear, cut, and dry. Louis had a great mind for boxing, but even he couldn't disrupt the Master of Disruption.

he proved he was the greatest, cause he was on the winning side of two of the biggest upsets in sports history. has any other great done that? in fact in most upsets, the winner goes on to be nothing. what have we heard of buster douglass lately? or leon spinks, or schmeling or braddock? ali went on to become great cause he was the best kept secret in boxing up until 1964, and managed to keep his other qualities in hiding up until 1974. when you can just prove the world wrong like that so effortlessly, you must be something special. ali beat the best comp. bar none. louis never really beat a top ten hw, maybe a couple of top 20s, but that's it. wow, ya'll are not getting it. ali is superior to louis in every way except punching power, but power doesn't matter when you can float like a butterfly and sting like a bee, now does it?

he told everyone to call him the greatest? and so thats the only reason why they did? if ali was as quiet as joe louis, many people would still recognize him as the greatest, cause of his boxing skills.

[hellfire508]

I think Ali proved he was the greatest with his career defining underdog victories over Sonny Liston and George Foreman, plus his 2 out of 3 outcome of the trilogy with Joe Frazier. That's 5-2 with 3 top 10 heavyweights. THEN - he went 4-1 with top 20 heavyweights, Patterson and Norton. Plus he beat other extremely good fighters like - Ron Lyle, Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis, Cleveland Williams, Zora Folley, Ernie Terrell, Henry Cooper, George Chuvalo, Oscar Bonavena, Earnie Shavers....plus more.

His competition is second to none at heavyweight. Plus, he was the three time heavyweight champion. 19 successful title defenses. And he interweaved politics into the sport like nobody else - and showed his qualities and worthiness of 'greatness' outside the ring too, with his stance on Vietnam. Not the greatest fighter of all time - though he is up there - but the greatest heavyweight, I think there is little doubt.

[butterfly1964]

I think Ali proved he was the greatest with his career defining underdog victories over Sonny Liston and George Foreman, plus his 2 out of 3 outcome of the trilogy with Joe Frazier. That's 5-2 with 3 top 10 heavyweights. THEN - he went 4-1 with top 20 heavyweights, Patterson and Norton. Plus he beat other extremely good fighters like - Ron Lyle, Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis, Cleveland Williams, Zora Folley, Ernie Terrell, Henry Cooper, George Chuvalo, Oscar Bonavena, Earnie Shavers....plus more.

His competition is second to none at heavyweight. Plus, he was the three time heavyweight champion. 19 successful title defenses. And he interweaved politics into the sport like nobody else - and showed his qualities and worthiness of 'greatness' outside the ring too, with his stance on Vietnam. Not the greatest fighter of all time - though he is up there - but the greatest heavyweight, I think there is little doubt.

nice post!

[Skydog]

ali is at least as accurate if not more accurate. watch ali-terrel, ali-patterson I, ali-williams, ali-chuvalo I, etc. almost all the punches he threw were right on the button.

watch both liston-patterson fights, especially the second, where even patterson's bobbing and weaving could'nt make liston miss with his precision power punches. it takes alot of speed to hit patterson that many times, and less speed to hit simon, who just stands right there flatfooted ready for you to hit him.

Wow, I'm glad you can find 4 fights like that. Guess what? You can find 68 fights where Louis did that.

Louis beat the **** out of Godoy, and Godoy's head never stopped moving, and he was always crouching. Conn, Mann, and Ettore were all dancers and movers, yet Louis KO'ed all 3 of them.

[hellfire508]

Both were extremely accurate punchers. I actually think Ali against Frazier is very impressive, considering how great Frazier's bobbing and weaving was. Ali hits flush alot. Louis was just as accurate with harder punches, thus why he is regarded as the greater effective puncher.

[BKM-]

ali's losses weren't in his prime cause they weren't, it's common sense. i don't know how not fighting for nearly 4 years, and then having 2 fights, one of them three rounds, and then after losing when clearly he wasn't ready and he was really slower than usual means you are in your prime. "he's 29, so he's in his prime." yeah, if he was allowed to fight up until that time he would have been in his prime. but he wasn't so that was not his prime, obviously. tyson was in his prime when he lost to douglass, he was only 23. he didn't train, does that mean he wasn't prime? i mean you can say after he came out of jail he wasn't prime, cause he was forced not to fight but in the douglass fight he was outclassed.

did i say that louis couldn't beat big guys idiot? no, i didn't. i said that louis couldn't beat a fast-moving big guy, because he barely beat the fast-moving smaller ones. is abe simon fast-moving? nope, he sure isn't. is buddy baer, primo carnera, or tony galento fast-moving? nooooo! so, no you didn't own me, you basically owned yourself on that one.

butterfly is getting emotional lol. Im gonna own you again if you dont mind.

You just said Ali wasn't in his prime because he didn't fight for a few years. That's called not training. Tyson didn't train for the Douglass fight as he rather had a party in Japan the day before lol. 3 years not training or months not training, its still not prime. Mike Tyson was never the same fighter after the Bruno fight unlike Ali beating Frazier, Foreman, (NOT Norton), and some other great fighters after prison, plus he TRAINED!! That's not prime? Lewis was a diffirent fighter in his younger days but he was a much better fighter in the end of his career. Is he not in his prime then?

You have said Louis can't beat bigger guys, but he could beat up little white guys? Do i remember correctly butterfly? hehe.
It doesn't matter he never faced a bigger dancing fighter like Ali because the little guys he fought were quicker than him and he still got them. He destroyed most of them so how could he not catch Ali?

Joe Louis UD15 after giving Ali a verocious beating throughout the whole fight PERIOD.

[BKM-]

I think Ali proved he was the greatest with his career defining underdog victories over Sonny Liston and George Foreman, plus his 2 out of 3 outcome of the trilogy with Joe Frazier. That's 5-2 with 3 top 10 heavyweights. THEN - he went 4-1 with top 20 heavyweights, Patterson and Norton. Plus he beat other extremely good fighters like - Ron Lyle, Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis, Cleveland Williams, Zora Folley, Ernie Terrell, Henry Cooper, George Chuvalo, Oscar Bonavena, Earnie Shavers....plus more.

His competition is second to none at heavyweight. Plus, he was the three time heavyweight champion. 19 successful title defenses. And he interweaved politics into the sport like nobody else - and showed his qualities and worthiness of 'greatness' outside the ring too, with his stance on Vietnam. Not the greatest fighter of all time - though he is up there - but the greatest heavyweight, I think there is little doubt.

Ali is overrated.

[hellfire508]

Wrong.

In your opinion, Ali is overrated. I don't think he is personally. And why don't you post your reasons of WHY Louis would beat up on Ali? Styles wise. Not just - "Louis was a great combination puncher, and hit hard, so he would beat the **** outta Ali".

[LondonRingRules]

=======His competition is second to none at heavyweight. Plus, he was the three time heavyweight champion. 19 successful title defenses. And he interweaved politics into the sport like nobody else - and showed his qualities and worthiness of 'greatness' outside the ring too, with his stance on Vietnam. =============================

** Well, Sam Langford would have to disagree on the competition factor.

Perhaps you agreed with Ali's Vietnam stance, however his political reasoning was as child like as his poetry was. No great intellect there, just a willingness to stand up for his shaky NOI religious beliefs. Admirable on the courage meter, yet lacking on the astuteness meter.