Harry Greb

[sonnyboyx2]

Whatever Tunney's excuses for losing to Greb, I'd say they were cancelled out by Greb being blind in one eye for most of their series. It is not exaggeration to say Greb beat Tunney more than once. Read the reports of that second fight. A lot of people though Greb won and you can also find reports which had him winning their drawn fight. Tunney only won two fights clearly.

I don't see anyone here making Greb a certainty to beat Dempsey, but it's not as if the fight be a walkover for Dempsey either. Greb did beat four men Dempsey fought in title fights as well as numerous other heavyweights. Best to best, Dempsey would probably look bad for as long as it lasted but eventually he'd catch up to Greb. No middleweight however tough is surviving Dempsey's power. There's always the off-chance Greb would out-box him though and based on the risk/reward factors, that's why I don't think Dempsey/Kearns were very interested in the fight.

A Greb v Dempsey fight would have been a huge fight and a very interesting fight as well as a fight which Greb could quite possibly have won on points yet i don't think Dempsey & Kearns was not interested in fighting Greb infact i think they was very interested in fighting him yet for some reason the fight never materialized and to blame the Heavyweight champion for not fighting the Middleweight champion is a bit much... Greb and his backers was up for a fight with Dempsey because Greb had 3 sparring sessions (3rds each) with Dempsey and claimed Dempsey never managed to land a single punch on him in those sessions and Greb's windmill sytle had Dempsey blowing heavily at the final bell of each session, Greb & his backers felt they had a decent chance to steal a points victory if they could persuade Dempsey & Kearns to agree to a World Title fight, They agreed to an 8 round fight yet that never came off, the reason being i dont know yet i feel it may have been a step too far for Greb.

[sonnyboyx2]

Gene Tunney vs Harry Greb fights - These 5 fights there are many opinions to who won and who lost which of the fights yet IMO i have always came to the conclusion that Greb broke Tunney's nose in their first fight and gave Tunney a bad beating over the 15rds. The next day Tunney called for a rematch and in each of their other 4 fights Tunney beat Greb by one or two rounds more each fight with their final fight being complately dominated by Tunney... Gene Tunney found a way to master the great Harry Greb by working out how to beat his relentless windmill style of fighting, which is why Gene Tunney is a special fighter who i feel only 3 or 4 fighters in history could have beaten... Harry Greb won a small fortune betting on Tunney to beat Dempsey

[Kid McCoy]

Gene Tunney vs Harry Greb fights - These 5 fights there are many opinions to who won and who lost which of the fights yet IMO i have always came to the conclusion that Greb broke Tunney's nose in their first fight and gave Tunney a bad beating over the 15rds. The next day Tunney called for a rematch and in each of their other 4 fights Tunney beat Greb by one or two rounds more each fight with their final fight being complately dominated by Tunney... Gene Tunney found a way to master the great Harry Greb by working out how to beat his relentless windmill style of fighting, which is why Gene Tunney is a special fighter who i feel only 3 or 4 fighters in history could have beaten... Harry Greb won a small fortune betting on Tunney to beat Dempsey

Except he didn't do that. He only won 2/5 fights clearly, one he clearly lost, another Greb was jobbed in according to many and the drawn fight was also disputed. New York State boxing commissioner Muldoon said the decision in the second fight was "unjust". According to the New York Times (24th February 1923): "Hisses greet decision at the end of fifteen rounds". Remember this was also at a time when by your own admission Greb was on the decline. 2-2-1 would be a fairer reflection of how their series went, dead even.

[sonnyboyx2]

Except he didn't do that. He only won 2/5 fights clearly, one he clearly lost, another Greb was jobbed in according to many and the drawn fight was also disputed. New York State boxing commissioner Muldoon said the decision in the second fight was "unjust". According to the New York Times (24th February 1923): "Hisses greet decision at the end of fifteen rounds". Remember this was also at a time when by your own admission Greb was on the decline. 2-2-1 would be a fairer reflection of how their series went, dead even.

That is your opinion of the 5 fights.. my opinion is that Greb won the first fight and Tunney won the other 4 fights with each of the last 4 Tunney beating him by a greater margin each time.

[Kid McCoy]

That is your opinion of the 5 fights.. my opinion is that Greb won the first fight and Tunney won the other 4 fights with each of the last 4 Tunney beating him by a greater margin each time.

And that's your opinion, except the evidence is against you. Can you show me some reports that had Tunney winning fights 2 and 4? Note these two:

[sonnyboyx2]

And that's your opinion, except the evidence is against you. Can you show me some reports that had Tunney winning fights 2 and 4? Note these two:

yes those two links point to a Tunney victory.... as i said earlier Tunney won by a better margin each time... here on the boxrec site they quote several newspaper opinions including the Pittsburg press which is Greb's home town... i can easily find newspaper writers who at the time of the fight claimed Tunney was the victor, so you are not going to change my opinion as i made my mind up about those 5 fights over 30yrs ago.

[Kid McCoy]

yes those two links point to a Tunney victory.... as i said earlier Tunney won by a better margin each time... here on the boxrec site they quote several newspaper opinions including the Pittsburg press which is Greb's home town... i can easily find newspaper writers who at the time of the fight claimed Tunney was the victor, so you are not going to change my opinion as i made my mind up about those 5 fights over 30yrs ago.

It speaks volumes that you'll stand by an opinion you made decades ago even when there's a tonne of evidence that it's wrong. Which parts point to a Tunney victory?

"The decision was met with mingled boos and applause, despite Tunney's popularity among the great majority of the fans, and came as a surprise to those at the ringside who had given Greb a wide margin on points in most of the rounds"

"Most of the newspaper critics, nonetheless, asserted that the champion should not have been uncrowned - that at least he should have been given a draw."

And here's another:

But the smoke had hardly cleared when clouds of official disapproval rose to blur the brilliance of his honors. Not only did the metropolitan papers cast bitter reflections on the verdict of Judges Charles E. Miles, Charles Meighan and Referee Patsy Haley, but William Muldoon himself, Chairman of the State Athletic Commission, declared the decision "unjustifiable". He stated, however, that the verdict was official and that the State Commission would stand by it. Accordingly, Tunney will retain his doubtful honors until he takes clear title to the championship in another fight with Greb.

[sonnyboyx2]

It speaks volumes that you'll stand by an opinion you made decades ago even when there's a tonne of evidence that it's wrong. Which parts point to a Tunney victory?

"The decision was met with mingled boos and applause, despite Tunney's popularity among the great majority of the fans, and came as a surprise to those at the ringside who had given Greb a wide margin on points in most of the rounds"

"Most of the newspaper critics, nonetheless, asserted that the champion should not have been uncrowned - that at least he should have been given a draw."

And here's another:

ive seen no evidence that its wrong... Greb was repeatedly warned for illegal tactics even being brought before the boxing commission.. The way i see it Tunney was the winner like how the fight was scored... if you are not happy about it take it up with the boxing commission instead of trying to lambaste my opinion.

[Kid McCoy]

ive seen no evidence that its wrong... Greb was repeatedly warned for illegal tactics even being brought before the boxing commission.. The way i see it Tunney was the winner like how the fight was scored... if you are not happy about it take it up with the boxing commission instead of trying to lambaste my opinion.

Because you cherry pick facts which suit your opinion, rather than basing your opinion on all the facts. The majority of ringside reports thought Greb won that second fight. That's a fact. There is no evidence for your claim that Tunney won the last four fights by "a better margin each time". That's a fact too. You can either accept it or ignore it.

[sonnyboyx2]

Because you cherry pick facts which suit your opinion, rather than basing your opinion on all the facts. The majority of ringside reports thought Greb won that second fight. That's a fact. There is no evidence for your claim that Tunney won the last four fights by "a better margin each time". That's a fact too. You can either accept it or ignore it.

There is plenty of evidence saying Tunney won the last four fights by a better margin each time..

1923-02-23 174 Harry Greb 165?63-2-2

Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States W UD 15 15

referee: Patsy Haley | judge: Charles Miles | judge: Charles Meegan
American Light Heavyweight Title
Most experts thought that Tunney had an edge by his cleaner blows. Regis Welsh of the Pittsburgh Post thought that Greb was robbed. Greb was the aggressor and Tunney the counterpuncher. Greb was made to observe the rules closely and this undoubtedly curbed his usual free-wheeling style. The fight was undoubtedly closely contested.