My Top Ten Greatest Heavyweight Champs Of All Time!

[LondonRingRules]

yeah, and when louis came back he beat up on bums like tammi mauriello. when ali came back, he had to fight people like frazier and norton.

** When Joe came back, he was past his best days and entering a traditional age of decline for athletes. When Ali came back, he was still in his physical prime. You really need to study up kid.

[Kid Achilles]

Doing a top ten list entirely on "who beats who" is a terrible idea Butterfly. Do you really think that Liston would beat all those guys underneath him on your list, even taking into consideration all of the different styles of those men?

If you do, well, I guess I'm not surprised.

[Yogi]

Doing a top ten list entirely on "who beats who" is a terrible idea Butterfly.

I agree with that 100%, and it's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when I see all-time lists/rankings made up predominately on a mythical "head-to-head" basis (that's not directly at Butterfly, because I see all too often elsewhere). I personally don't mind if there is some semblance of that in one's criteria (a small amount...maybe as a tie-breaker between a couple of guys or something), but if you ask me all-time rankings should almost entirely be based on what the fighter(s) actually DID do during their respective times...not on some unprovable theory what they may or may not have be able to do with others of different times.

[K-DOGG]

I agree with that 100%, and it's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when I see all-time lists/rankings made up predominately on a mythical "head-to-head" basis (that's not directly at Butterfly, because I see all too often elsewhere). I personally don't mind if there is some semblance of that in one's criteria (a small amount...maybe as a tie-breaker between a couple of guys or something), but if you ask me all-time rankings should almost entirely be based on what the fighter(s) actually DID do during their respective times...not on some unprovable theory what they may or may not have be able to do with others of different times.

Agreed 100% from the peanut gallery.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

Head to head Liston beating Foreman Fraizer Tyson Marciano Louis Dempsey

that just laughable

yea a swarmer vs a slugger like foreman is sucide but liston is not nearly as strong as Foreman, and Frazier hits alot harder then Liston as does Dempsey, Foreman, Tyson and Marciano, Possibley even Louis

Liston was a good slugger, very strong, great jab, but your blowing him WAY out of proportion to make it look like young clay beat a great hw or something. Point is Liston wasn't even prime fighting clay, and Liston wasn't that great to begin with, he was good but not top10,


Louis didn't get stripped of his title because he went to war and he didn't have to wait for a draft officer to call his name because he signed up because he loved the country that was filling his pocket with money.

[butterfly1964]

Head to head Liston beating Foreman Fraizer Tyson Marciano Louis Dempsey

that just laughable

yea a swarmer vs a slugger like foreman is sucide but liston is not nearly as strong as Foreman, and Frazier hits alot harder then Liston as does Dempsey, Foreman, Tyson and Marciano, Possibley even Louis

Liston was a good slugger, very strong, great jab, but your blowing him WAY out of proportion to make it look like young clay beat a great hw or something. Point is Liston wasn't even prime fighting clay, and Liston wasn't that great to begin with, he was good but not top10,


Louis didn't get stripped of his title because he went to war and he didn't have to wait for a draft officer to call his name because he signed up because he loved the country that was filling his pocket with money.

liston hit waaaaay harder than marciano dempsey frazier and tyson could ever dream of. the only people besides ali that liston might lose to is foreman and holmes. marciano only weighed about 185 and dempsey was only 190, so how do you figure than they hit harder than liston? have you ever seen liston fight besides the two ali fights? obviously you haven't. frazier doesn't punch as hard as liston, cause if he did, he wouldn't need to swarm into opponents to break them down, he would just become a slugger and do just fine wouldn't he? foreman punches harder than liston, but not way harder. liston was a powerful man. he knocked people out with his jab alone, and i don't mean a series of jabs, i mean one jab! so rocky'fan your just not making any sense.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

liston hit waaaaay harder than marciano dempsey frazier and tyson could ever dream of. the only people besides ali that liston might lose to is foreman and holmes. marciano only weighed about 185 and dempsey was only 190, so how do you figure than they hit harder than liston? have you ever seen liston fight besides the two ali fights? obviously you haven't. frazier doesn't punch as hard as liston, cause if he did, he wouldn't need to swarm into opponents to break them down, he would just become a slugger and do just fine wouldn't he? foreman punches harder than liston, but not way harder. liston was a powerful man. he knocked people out with his jab alone, and i don't mean a series of jabs, i mean one jab! so rocky'fan your just not making any sense.

your doing what many others do assuming that weight makes punching power. It doesn't ali was over 200 lbs and he didn't even hit near as hard Marciano or Dempsey, no where near. And you say Frazier would have been a slugger not a swarmer, also not true. Just because you have a hard punch doesn't mean you should/have to be a slugger. From what i've read Foreman would have been alot better off if he had been a swarmer so your wrong.

Liston did not hit as hard as Marciano, or Dempsey, and if you say he hit harder then Frazier or Tyson your out of your mind. Tyson for sure hit alot harder then Liston. Tyson had an over 2200 PSI for his punch, and Frazier (i venture to say) hits harder then Marciano and Dempsey and maybe even harder then Tyson. Tyson was a very hard hitting hw and he was a swarmer not a slugger

so you need to stop making Sonny Liston seem like he belongs at number two because he doesn't, if he does its at 8 or below.

[Kid Achilles]

liston hit waaaaay harder than marciano dempsey frazier and tyson could ever dream of. the only people besides ali that liston might lose to is foreman and holmes. marciano only weighed about 185 and dempsey was only 190, so how do you figure than they hit harder than liston? have you ever seen liston fight besides the two ali fights? obviously you haven't. frazier doesn't punch as hard as liston, cause if he did, he wouldn't need to swarm into opponents to break them down, he would just become a slugger and do just fine wouldn't he? foreman punches harder than liston, but not way harder. liston was a powerful man. he knocked people out with his jab alone, and i don't mean a series of jabs, i mean one jab! so rocky'fan your just not making any sense.

Prove that Liston hit harder than these guys, let's see the evidence. Liston had a very good punch, an underrated left hook especially, but a lot of his victories were on account of his great jab and all around boxing skill. Watching him and Louis on film, I think Louis looks like the harder, more fluid puncher and he also KO'ed larger men with better chins than Liston did.

[butterfly1964]

your doing what many others do assuming that weight makes punching power. It doesn't ali was over 200 lbs and he didn't even hit near as hard Marciano or Dempsey, no where near. And you say Frazier would have been a slugger not a swarmer, also not true. Just because you have a hard punch doesn't mean you should/have to be a slugger. From what i've read Foreman would have been alot better off if he had been a swarmer so your wrong.

Liston did not hit as hard as Marciano, or Dempsey, and if you say he hit harder then Frazier or Tyson your out of your mind. Tyson for sure hit alot harder then Liston. Tyson had an over 2200 PSI for his punch, and Frazier (i venture to say) hits harder then Marciano and Dempsey and maybe even harder then Tyson. Tyson was a very hard hitting hw and he was a swarmer not a slugger

so you need to stop making Sonny Liston seem like he belongs at number two because he doesn't, if he does its at 8 or below.

like i said prove that little marciano or skinny dempsey hit harder than liston and i'll shut up. it took a series of rounds for frazier to wear down and floor ali, and it's not like ali was hard to hit either. ali was slower and he was right there to hit, yet frazier had to keep hitting him to hurt him. liston fought a much faster ali and with one head shot and a couple of body shots he hurt ali big time and almost knocked him out, so liston hits harder.

tyson, well, it's close, but i'll still have to give it to liston cause again i've seen liston do worse things to people in the ring than tyson did. tyson has faster hands, so that's why he may have hurt people quicker cause he got more snap into it, but he still didn't have the raw power that liston had.

[butterfly1964]

Prove that Liston hit harder than these guys, let's see the evidence. Liston had a very good punch, an underrated left hook especially, but a lot of his victories were on account of his great jab and all around boxing skill. Watching him and Louis on film, I think Louis looks like the harder, more fluid puncher and he also KO'ed larger men with better chins than Liston did.

do you honestly think that it would take 13 rounds for liston to beat jersey joe walcott? or 9 rounds to fininsh archie moore? liston would knock them all out in one round! also, liston would not have to knock down luis firpo nine times in order for him to stay down. or knock down jess willard 15 times, and dempsey didn't really even knock him out, he quit on his stool. and just because abe somon and buddy baer were 250+ doesn't mean they had good chins.