Did Rid**** Bowe Duck Lennox Lewis?

[mickey malone]

I think you are misunderstanding the facts here. If you are a King fighter then you will most probably get a title shot sooner than if you were not a King fighter, due to back handers paid to the WBC. In other words if you are not a King fighter you work your way up and if you are then you get to use the back door i.e King decides for his fighters

I know what the facts are.. The facts are the rules, and the WBC broke those rules by allowing Don King to up sanctioning fees. We've already agreed that Holyfield wasn't a King fighter, but when Sulaiman agreed that Holyfield's 2nd defense would be against Foreman, King threw a fit and demanded that he fought Mike Tyson.. It was on King's intruction that the WBC unlawfully stripped him of his title, and it was Don King and NOT the WBC who Holyfield had to take to court in order to get it back, which tbh, proves beyond reasonable doubt that King is almost running the show.

The WBO title back then was seen as worthless belt, kind of like how the IBObelt is seen today. Even Bowe would say that the belt was stiffling his career. If Lewis had fought him and won the belt then he would have been dropped from the rankings of the WBC, IBF and WBA

At the time Bowe became WBO champ, Lewis was fighting the likes of Justin Fortune and Lionel Butler.. He was a challenger, fighting to get back into contention after losing to McCall and bar revenge, had very little to hold him back.. But yes you're right, The WBO belt wasn't taken at all seriously back then.

How do you know its for King and not for the greedy execs at the WBC?
You also pay to be ranked with the sanctioning bodies as well

How do you know if someone's pissing up your back and telling you it's raining?... All i've got is dozens of testaments from professional boxer's who have dealt with the WBC.. Tie this with the fact that the execs at the other sanctioning bodies only want half as much, and you have your answer, Don King.

This just means that they are greedier than the other sanctioning bodies, Why are they giving money to King? Its the other way around, he bribes them so they look after his fighters

Sulaiman and King make money for one another.. As I said earlier, I can't prove what percentage of who's fee goes to who, but I can prove that King is given an obscene amount of power by the WBC.

Again I think you are misunderstanding the facts, Tyson was a King fighter who never got himself a decent manager, lawyer or accountant. King was ripping him off left right and centre, using the WBC as one tool for doing so

I'm not misunderstanding, I'm just saying that the WBC are raking in double bubble from either end, and most of the evidence suggests that King has his hand in the till.. It's almost impossible for me to believe that the only concession given to King by Sulaiman, is getting his fighters looked after..

[StarshipTrooper]

I know what the facts are.. The facts are the rules, and the WBC broke those rules by allowing Don King to up sanctioning fees. We've already agreed that Holyfield wasn't a King fighter, but when Sulaiman agreed that Holyfield's 2nd defense would be against Foreman, King threw a fit and demanded that he fought Mike Tyson.. It was on King's intruction that the WBC unlawfully stripped him of his title, and it was Don King and NOT the WBC who Holyfield had to take to court in order to get it back, which tbh, proves beyond reasonable doubt that King is almost running the show.

At the time Bowe became WBO champ, Lewis was fighting the likes of Justin Fortune and Lionel Butler.. He was a challenger, fighting to get back into contention after losing to McCall and bar revenge, had very little to hold him back.. But yes you're right, The WBO belt wasn't taken at all seriously back then.

How do you know if someone's pissing up your back and telling you it's raining?... All i've got is dozens of testaments from professional boxer's who have dealt with the WBC.. Tie this with the fact that the execs at the other sanctioning bodies only want half as much, and you have your answer, Don King.

Sulaiman and King make money for one another.. As I said earlier, I can't prove what percentage of who's fee goes to who, but I can prove that King is given an obscene amount of power by the WBC.

I'm not misunderstanding, I'm just saying that the WBC are raking in double bubble from either end, and most of the evidence suggests that King has his hand in the till.. It's almost impossible for me to believe that the only concession given to King by Sulaiman, is getting his fighters looked after..

Jose Sulaiman = Don King's Mini-Me.

[Toney616]

I know what the facts are.. The facts are the rules, and the WBC broke those rules by allowing Don King to up sanctioning fees. We've already agreed that Holyfield wasn't a King fighter, but when Sulaiman agreed that Holyfield's 2nd defense would be against Foreman, King threw a fit and demanded that he fought Mike Tyson.. It was on King's intruction that the WBC unlawfully stripped him of his title, and it was Don King and NOT the WBC who Holyfield had to take to court in order to get it back, which tbh, proves beyond reasonable doubt that King is almost running the show.

i dont know about this, so I cant comment

At the time Bowe became WBO champ, Lewis was fighting the likes of Justin Fortune and Lionel Butler.. He was a challenger, fighting to get back into contention after losing to McCall and bar revenge, had very little to hold him back.. But yes you're right, The WBO belt wasn't taken at all seriously back then.

Bowe had lost both the WBA and IBF belts, he had a belt which was lightly regarded as well, he had messed Lewis around when there was a big demand for their fight, so I cant see why Lewis should of taken him up on his offer back then

How do you know if someone's pissing up your back and telling you it's raining?... All i've got is dozens of testaments from professional boxer's who have dealt with the WBC.. Tie this with the fact that the execs at the other sanctioning bodies only want half as much, and you have your answer, Don King.

Don King was also paying bribes to Bobby Lee the head of the IBF as well

Sulaiman and King make money for one another.. As I said earlier, I can't prove what percentage of who's fee goes to who, but I can prove that King is given an obscene amount of power by the WBC.

Of course. He pays off the WBC to push his fighters up the ranks and in return they get their sanctioning fees

I'm not misunderstanding, I'm just saying that the WBC are raking in double bubble from either end, and most of the evidence suggests that King has his hand in the till.. It's almost impossible for me to believe that the only concession given to King by Sulaiman, is getting his fighters looked after..

But thats whats it all about at the end of the day. If you sign with King you are guarenteed a title shot, also they will break there own rules to look after you.
On Topic:
Rid**** Bowe stopped the fight with Lewis from happening because he wanted the purse to be split 90-10 in his favour. The accepted purse split for champion and challenger is 75-25. Neither Bowe or Newman stated that the WBC sanctioning fees were the reason for the fight not happening, Lewis was prepared to pay them, so why not Bowe as well?

At the end of the day it was Bowe who suffered more from the fight not happening

[BritishBoxing92]

yeah...lewis was a Mandatory WBC Contender for Rid**** Bowe But He Refused To Defend Against Him And Had To Give Lennox Lewis His Belt...So Yeah He Pretty Much Did..

[mickey malone]

On Topic:
Rid**** Bowe stopped the fight with Lewis from happening because he wanted the purse to be split 90-10 in his favour. The accepted purse split for champion and challenger is 75-25. At the end of the day it was Bowe who suffered more from the fight not happening

Yes, I agree that was an insulting offer but according to the link you supplied, Newman put two offers on the table:- 90/10, but only if the WBC are involved..
Newman's alternative offer was to guarantee Lewis $9 million, providing he refused the WBC belt.. Maloney then conceeds that it's a good offer, but he's made a commitment to the WBC.. Shortly afterwards the belt went in the bin.

[The Noose]

Lewis was just a challenger waiting for his shot, and whether King was trying it on or not, it was him and Bowe who couldn't agree.. King at the time, had only 3 decent heavies; Bowe, Tucker and McCall.. He was so low on gas he was even promoting the likes of Lionel Butler!

Lewis and Bowe both wanted the fight.. It was the biggest fight out there, and would have made a mint.. And I can assure you, both were desperate to put the Olympic controversy to rest once and for all.. What with Tyson getting ****** up and a massive tax bill infront of him, King was having it a lot tougher than usual & started moving the goalposts and asking Bowe to sign more than one differring contract.. He'd just stiffed Tim Witherspoon in the same way, and Bowe wasn't having none of it..

Bowe being an undisputed champion had 3 belts wrapped around his waist, and the only way he could rid himself of King, was by relinquishing the WBC version, but because he was angered by their attempts to rip him off, he didn't hand it back very nicely..

He also reckoned it would anger Lewis into chasing him, but that's where King had the last laugh because once he'd beaten Tucker, he got Lewis's signature on a WBC contract that froze out Bowe.

Bowe had already sought a more trustworthy deal with the other sanctioning bodies; the better deals being - Easy defenses against Dokes and Ferguson, thus freezing out King.

Bowe left King and WBC in the ****.. The best they could offer Lewis was less money against King's only other half decent HW Tony Tucker, so Lewis took it because he was only interested in winning the belt..

Bowe then lost the other 2 belts back to Holyfield and due to the 'bin rage' incident, was still frozen out by the WBC..

Next, Bowe won the WBO title from Herbie Hyde and called out Lewis who by then had lost his WBC belt to McCall..

At the time (95) Lewis was working his way back towards a rematch with McCall.. He was hell-bent on revenge and didn't want to jeopardize his chances by upsetting the WBC.. McCall after all, was their reigning champion and one of King's fighters.. Lewis was focused on McCall and knew he could beat him.. Fighting Bowe may well have left him out in the cold..

You can blame these two for the fight never happening - Don King and Jose Sulaiman.. (Sulaiman = King = Sulaiman = King)

CONCLUSION - WBC priced themselves out of it with Bowe

Cool.
I always wondered what that whole bin thing was about.

[Equinox]

He always talked the talk but never walked the walk, you tell me...

[Toney616]

Yes, I agree that was an insulting offer but according to the link you supplied, Newman put two offers on the table:- 90/10, but only if the WBC are involved.

Newman's alternative offer was to guarantee Lewis $9 million, providing he refused the WBC belt.. Maloney then conceeds that it's a good offer, but he's made a commitment to the WBC.. Shortly afterwards the belt went in the bin.

Good point. Maybe it was the sanctioning fees they had a problem with or maybe it was because the WBC were on their case to make the fight happen. It should of course be noted that Lewis had no problem paying them any sanctioning fees. Rid**** would of ended up making a lot of money, if the fight came off

With all fights that dont happen, we will never know what really happened behind the scenes, we just have to go by what we read.

It would of been a great fight though.

[mickey malone]

Good point. Maybe it was the sanctioning fees they had a problem with or maybe it was because the WBC were on their case to make the fight happen. It should of course be noted that Lewis had no problem paying them any sanctioning fees. Rid**** would of ended up making a lot of money, if the fight came off

With all fights that dont happen, we will never know what really happened behind the scenes, we just have to go by what we read.

It would of been a great fight though.

For me, it's the biggest disappointment in boxing history.
Many thanks for a good debate though, I picked up a lot of info from you.

[Toney616]

For me, it's the biggest disappointment in boxing history.

It ws an exciting time to be a boxing fan with Holyfield, Ruddock, Bowe etc around, shame the belt got split up the way it did.

Many thanks for a good debate though, I picked up a lot of info from you.

Thanks as well, I've learned some stuff as well.

p.s: how come you never use the multiquote function?