The level of Lewis' opponents

[Benncollinsaad]

I again must question LL's greatness. If you look at his first title reign, who did he fight? TONY TUCKER. A guy who was SERIOUSLY over the hill and yet made it a tough fight for the Jamaican. PHIL JACKSON...who's he? Nobody! Then he met a prime Ollie McCall and got koed like an amateur.

In his second title reign, he fought a ramshackled McCall. Maybe he even knew about his condition. I tip that he did. Then he fought Akinwande, a really big guy but not exactly the best hw in the world. Then Golota, who was known for his fouls and his mental imbalance already then (it was rather obvious, wasn't it?). Shannon Briggs, who always only had that big left hook but not much else of boxing skills. Not the best chin either, he got ktfoed by Darroll Wilson in 3.

Zeljko Mavrovic...well, I think that fight really proved that Lewis was not the great fighter he and some others thought he was. Mavrovic came underfed and weight drained and still gave him hell, particularly in the 7th round. Still, as weakened as he was he could never keep the assault going too long. And then, as he became the undisputed champion, who were the opponents he picked as his first three defenses?!? MICHAEL GRANT, FRANS BOTHA and DAVID TUA. An oversized hypejob, a fat brawler without real skills or notable punching power and an undersized power puncher. Lewis held&punched Grant into submission, outslugged Botha who never was a big puncher and ran and boxed Tua into submission, committing a few intentional fouls on him in the process.

Then finally he took on a better opponent. A guy who wasn't too big to move around or too small to reach him and that could punch and box some as well. And what happened? He went down, hard. That he beat him in the rematch doesn't really prove anything except that he had power and was more focused this time, naturally. And when it comes to the other great opponents he beat between his title reigns: Mercer won or at least drew that fight and Bruno was outboxing him like a child before he got careless and walked in a big left hook. Holyfield of course was nowhere near his old self. Same with Iron Mike.

So there you go. I wonder why nobody has seen or pointed this out before. All these Lewishuggers go on about what great opposition he beat...but when you read this, you'll find it pretty laughable too, I'm sure!

[Silencers]

Lewis beat the best heavyweights of his time who were willing to step into the ring with him.

He destroyed Razor Ruddock before his title reign, a Ruddock who gave Tyson quite a few problems in their 2 fights a few fights before.

Then he beat Tony Tucker, who while not being a world beater, was a good fighter. That was probably the most motivated and well trained version of Tucker since Tucker's fight with Tyson, and probably the last time Tucker was really motivated as well. Lewis handled him.

Frank Bruno was next, highly rated at the time with losses only to the best in the world. Bruno was very motivated for this fight, kept calling himself the True Brit while labeling Lewis a fraud.

Sure he lost to McCall, it was a punch he never saw coming, happens to everyone. Unfortunately for Lewis, it happened to him twice over the course of his career.

After a few comeback fights, 1 of which was against former Freddie Roach right hand man Justin Fortune, he fought Tommy Morrison who at the time was considered a top 15 heavyweight. Lewis destroyed him.

Ray Mercer was also considered a top heavyweight back then, Mercer gave Lewis arguably his toughest since Bruno in a fight that could've gone either way. As a sidenote, I had Lewis scraping it.

Then came the farce of a title fight against McCall which was none of his fault, Don King who I believe was McCall's promoter at the time forced McCall to fight when McCall was going through withdrawal for his ******* habits.

Henry Akinwande was actually a pretty highly regarded heavyweight hopeful back then who held the WBO title, can't imagine why honestly but he was. Lewis fought him when Akinwande was supposed to be at his best coming off good performances against Alexander Zolkin and Scott Welch. Akinwande hugged his way to a DQ loss, quite a disappointment.

Andrew Golota was another highly rated heavyweight at the time with his only 2 losses coming against Bowe in DQs because of those low blows, Golota had also beaten fellow prospect Danell Nicholson prior to the Bowe fights. Lewis annihilated him, something no one would do until Lamon Brewster did it 8 years later.

Lewis fought Briggs because Briggs beat Foreman who was considered to be the lineal champion, whether Briggs deserved to beat Foreman is another matter but you can't blame Lewis for fighting him. Lewis survived some early storms to knock Briggs out. Briggs has since gone on to become a title holder.

Where did you hear Mavrovic was weight drained? Never heard of a heavyweight being weight drained before honestly. Over trained? Sure. Under trained? Yep. But weight drained? Never.

Then came the 2 fights against Holyfield to have an undisputed heavyweight champion, he honestly dominated Holyfield in the first fight only to have the fight scored a draw, then he also won the second fight which was closer but he won it nonetheless.

Michael Grant was a heavily hyped HBO product at the time who was I believe a mandatory to one of Lewis' belts. He was deemed the American hope back then, poor guy got exposed on a big, big stage.

You could argue about Botha getting a title shot but Botha was world rated, he was coming off a disputed draw against Briggs, which he should've won in my eyes, I think even Briggs said he was lucky to get a draw and he was beating Tyson before Tyson caught him, the Tyson fight is also noteworthy because Tyson tried to break Botha's arm in the clinches when he became frustrated. Lewis again, destroyed him.

Tua was number 1 contender to Lewis' title, a lot of people thought Tua would win the fight, comparing him to a young Mike Tyson. Lewis turned the fight into a boxing clinic.

Then came the Rahman fight, Rahman was a rated contender, a heavy underdog and caught Lewis with a shot that Lewis didn't see coming. The second time that's happened in his career. I happen to think Rahman caught Lewis at the right place at the right time. Lewis was overconfident, was filming a movie and didn't arrive to the high altitudes of South Africa until only a week before the fight, a disaster waiting to happen honestly.

We then saw what happened in the rematch when Lewis was fully prepared and motivated.

Everyone pretty much wanted the Tyson fight to happen, it was a huge fight even though Tyson was way past his prime, some people actually gave Tyson a chance at winning.

Anyways, that's like a fight by fight of Lewis' career. He beat a lot of top 10 heavyweights of his time when the top 10 heavyweights were actually top 10 heavyweights unlike today's division, most of the time emphatically leaving no questions about who was the winner. He was a great heavyweight.

[Benncollinsaad]

I disagree with everything you said. You are looking at this the way you want to look at it. You are being biased and its obvious you are a Lewis fan. Anybody else? No Lewis fans, I should've precised that at once.

And Mavrovic ate nothing but macrobiotic food before the fight, its obvious you didnt know that. So he WAS weight drained, as was Toney before the Jones fight and Tarver before the Hopkins fight! So you see...it CAN happen!

[Benncollinsaad]

Btw, Ruddock had a cold in that fight. He had a lousy time in England. I understand that btw.

[blacklodge]

I think a lot of Lewis' opposition has been downgraded because of the way history unfolded afterwards. Michael Grant was viewed by most (not that I agreed) as a legitimate heavyweight champion probability at the time. No one foresaw McCall's meltdown, knew just how deeply troubled Golota was, that Razor Ruddock was finished and never that good to begin with, or that Mike Tyson was so deflated that he would lose to Danny Williams and Kevin McBride. Holyfield looked like he still had it going into his fights with Lewis as well. I consider Rahman, Tua, Briggs (the undeserving but legitimate lineal heavyweight champion) and Klitschko to be quality wins. Botha, Morrisson, Mavrovic and their ilk are just par for the course as far as heavyweight boxing.
My criticisms of Lewis are not in who he fought, but who he didn't fight. Michael Moorer, Rid**** Bowe, John Ruiz and Oleg Maskaev come to mind. Maybe W. Klitschko and Corrie Sanders. Ray Mercer deserved a rematch (I scored that fight for Mercer barely). Those are some seriously notable fighters to have missed out on (for whatever reason) for a guy who alleged to dominate his era. Maybe that's fair, maybe it isn't. But it's why he barely cracks the heavyweight top 10 at best instead of being a solid 6-8.

[Benncollinsaad]

There's no point in explaining it because you're one of the dumbest people I've ever known on this forum. In fact, you probably take the number one spot.

I heard you're getting banned. All I can do now is laugh at your racist ass.

And all I can do is tell you to go and blow some big black guy. Loser.

[Silencers]

I disagree with everything you said. You are looking at this the way you want to look at it. You are being biased and its obvious you are a Lewis fan. Anybody else? No Lewis fans, I should've precised that at once.

And Mavrovic ate nothing but macrobiotic food before the fight, its obvious you didnt know that. So he WAS weight drained, as was Toney before the Jones fight and Tarver before the Hopkins fight! So you see...it CAN happen!

First of all I'm not a Lewis fan. Never have been, I was actually criticizing him back during his reign.

Eating macrobiotic food doesn't mean he was weight drained. Toney was weight drained against Jones because he ballooned up to 200 pounds between the Williams fight and the Jones fight. Tarver was like 210 or 220 before the Hopkins fight.

Just out of curiosity, how long have you been following boxing?

[Mersey]

Lewis beat the best heavyweights of his time who were willing to step into the ring with him.

He destroyed Razor Ruddock before his title reign, a Ruddock who gave Tyson quite a few problems in their 2 fights a few fights before.

Then he beat Tony Tucker, who while not being a world beater, was a good fighter. That was probably the most motivated and well trained version of Tucker since Tucker's fight with Tyson, and probably the last time Tucker was really motivated as well. Lewis handled him.

Frank Bruno was next, highly rated at the time with losses only to the best in the world. Bruno was very motivated for this fight, kept calling himself the True Brit while labeling Lewis a fraud.

Sure he lost to McCall, it was a punch he never saw coming, happens to everyone. Unfortunately for Lewis, it happened to him twice over the course of his career.

After a few comeback fights, 1 of which was against former Freddie Roach right hand man Justin Fortune, he fought Tommy Morrison who at the time was considered a top 15 heavyweight. Lewis destroyed him.

Ray Mercer was also considered a top heavyweight back then, Mercer gave Lewis arguably his toughest since Bruno in a fight that could've gone either way. As a sidenote, I had Lewis scraping it.

Then came the farce of a title fight against McCall which was none of his fault, Don King who I believe was McCall's promoter at the time forced McCall to fight when McCall was going through withdrawal for his ******* habits.

Henry Akinwande was actually a pretty highly regarded heavyweight hopeful back then who held the WBO title, can't imagine why honestly but he was. Lewis fought him when Akinwande was supposed to be at his best coming off good performances against Alexander Zolkin and Scott Welch. Akinwande hugged his way to a DQ loss, quite a disappointment.

Andrew Golota was another highly rated heavyweight at the time with his only 2 losses coming against Bowe in DQs because of those low blows, Golota had also beaten fellow prospect Danell Nicholson prior to the Bowe fights. Lewis annihilated him, something no one would do until Lamon Brewster did it 8 years later.

Lewis fought Briggs because Briggs beat Foreman who was considered to be the lineal champion, whether Briggs deserved to beat Foreman is another matter but you can't blame Lewis for fighting him. Lewis survived some early storms to knock Briggs out. Briggs has since gone on to become a title holder.

Where did you hear Mavrovic was weight drained? Never heard of a heavyweight being weight drained before honestly. Over trained? Sure. Under trained? Yep. But weight drained? Never.

Then came the 2 fights against Holyfield to have an undisputed heavyweight champion, he honestly dominated Holyfield in the first fight only to have the fight scored a draw, then he also won the second fight which was closer but he won it nonetheless.

Michael Grant was a heavily hyped HBO product at the time who was I believe a mandatory to one of Lewis' belts. He was deemed the American hope back then, poor guy got exposed on a big, big stage.

You could argue about Botha getting a title shot but Botha was world rated, he was coming off a disputed draw against Briggs, which he should've won in my eyes, I think even Briggs said he was lucky to get a draw and he was beating Tyson before Tyson caught him, the Tyson fight is also noteworthy because Tyson tried to break Botha's arm in the clinches when he became frustrated. Lewis again, destroyed him.

Tua was number 1 contender to Lewis' title, a lot of people thought Tua would win the fight, comparing him to a young Mike Tyson. Lewis turned the fight into a boxing clinic.

Then came the Rahman fight, Rahman was a rated contender, a heavy underdog and caught Lewis with a shot that Lewis didn't see coming. The second time that's happened in his career. I happen to think Rahman caught Lewis at the right place at the right time. Lewis was overconfident, was filming a movie and didn't arrive to the high altitudes of South Africa until only a week before the fight, a disaster waiting to happen honestly.

We then saw what happened in the rematch when Lewis was fully prepared and motivated.

Everyone pretty much wanted the Tyson fight to happen, it was a huge fight even though Tyson was way past his prime, some people actually gave Tyson a chance at winning.

Anyways, that's like a fight by fight of Lewis' career. He beat a lot of top 10 heavyweights of his time when the top 10 heavyweights were actually top 10 heavyweights unlike today's division, most of the time emphatically leaving no questions about who was the winner. He was a great heavyweight.

Enough said.

Benncollinsaad, let it go.

[Silencers]

I think a lot of Lewis' opposition has been downgraded because of the way history unfolded afterwards. Michael Grant was viewed by most (not that I agreed) as a legitimate heavyweight champion probability at the time. No one foresaw McCall's meltdown, knew just how deeply troubled Golota was, that Razor Ruddock was finished and never that good to begin with, or that Mike Tyson was so deflated that he would lose to Danny Williams and Kevin McBride. Holyfield looked like he still had it going into his fights with Lewis as well. I consider Rahman, Tua, Briggs (the undeserving but legitimate lineal heavyweight champion) and Klitschko to be quality wins. Botha, Morrisson, Mavrovic and their ilk are just par for the course as far as heavyweight boxing.
My criticisms of Lewis are not in who he fought, but who he didn't fight. Michael Moorer, Rid**** Bowe, John Ruiz and Oleg Maskaev come to mind. Maybe W. Klitschko and Corrie Sanders. Ray Mercer deserved a rematch (I scored that fight for Mercer barely). Those are some seriously notable fighters to have missed out on (for whatever reason) for a guy who alleged to dominate his era. Maybe that's fair, maybe it isn't. But it's why he barely cracks the heavyweight top 10 at best instead of being a solid 6-8.

I actually think time has helped Lewis' resume rather than hurt it. Looking back now, you can see that the fighters he fought were very good fighters in arguably the best heavyweight division since the 70s.

Michael Moorer was off for nearly 3 years after Holyfield beat him, Lewis of course went on to beat Holyfield.

Rid**** Bowe decided to throw his belt in a trash can rather than fight Lewis.

Ruiz got blown out by Tua and didn't really become significant again until after the Holyfield trilogy by which time Lewis was engaging in a mega fight with Tyson and was contemplating retirement.

Maskaev? Maybe after the first win against Rahman but Lewis was busy with Holyfield at the time and then Maskaev lost back to back knockout losses to Johnson and Whitaker.

[Benncollinsaad]

First of all I'm not a Lewis fan. Never have been, I was actually criticizing him back during his reign.

Eating macrobiotic food doesn't mean he was weight drained. Toney was weight drained against Jones because he ballooned up to 200 pounds between the Williams fight and the Jones fight. Tarver was like 210 or 220 before the Hopkins fight.

Just out of curiosity, how long have you been following boxing?

About 7 years seriously.

I think a lot of Lewis' opposition has been downgraded because of the way history unfolded afterwards. Michael Grant was viewed by most (not that I agreed) as a legitimate heavyweight champion probability at the time. No one foresaw McCall's meltdown, knew just how deeply troubled Golota was, that Razor Ruddock was finished and never that good to begin with, or that Mike Tyson was so deflated that he would lose to Danny Williams and Kevin McBride. Holyfield looked like he still had it going into his fights with Lewis as well. I consider Rahman, Tua, Briggs (the undeserving but legitimate lineal heavyweight champion) and Klitschko to be quality wins. Botha, Morrisson, Mavrovic and their ilk are just par for the course as far as heavyweight boxing.
My criticisms of Lewis are not in who he fought, but who he didn't fight. Michael Moorer, Rid**** Bowe, John Ruiz and Oleg Maskaev come to mind. Maybe W. Klitschko and Corrie Sanders. Ray Mercer deserved a rematch (I scored that fight for Mercer barely). Those are some seriously notable fighters to have missed out on (for whatever reason) for a guy who alleged to dominate his era. Maybe that's fair, maybe it isn't. But it's why he barely cracks the heavyweight top 10 at best instead of being a solid 6-8.

Exactly. And thats the part of my point. He ducked so many guys out there. Ruiz, Wladimir, Moorer, Sanders, Kirk Johnson...how come nobody mentions this and criticizes him? Maybe some Americans do, I dunno.