Why didnt Dempsey ever fight on the outside?

[Biledriver]

He did write a book ... it might explain his stances.



it's a pun

I see what you did there

[Willie Pep 229]

I have seen . . .

Decent footage of Carpentier.
Poor footage of Firpo
Good footage of Gibbons
Poor footage of Tunney (I)
Decent footage of Sharkey
Good footage of Tunney (II)

They say there is footage of Brennan but I have not yet found it.

Anyone know of more?

Rickard got the Carpentier fight around the Sims Law (anti-boxing film moving across state borders, law) with bribes in 1921. The Harding Administration was corrupt across the country. Many copies made.

Rickard failed getting the Firpo fight out of New York State. New Coolidge Adminstration was as clean as a hound's tooth. Bribes didn't work. Fewer copies avaiable for survival.

Shelby fight was confiscated before screening by the government. No copies made. But original negative laid dormant until the repeal of the law in 1940. Good copies made from it.

Tunney (I) was filmed in the rain. Poor footage to start with. Few viewings outside of Philadelphia possible. Few copies made.

Tunney (II) the 'long count' so excited the nation Rickard was once again able to skirt the law. Shown across the country. Many copies were made. Much was preserved.*


* by 1927 the Coolidge Administration was not as aggressive after 1925. Two things had changed: Coolidge had lost a son while in the White House and was less interested in most things. More importantly the GOP had put a few years behind them since the scandals of 1922 and subsequent trials in 1924, so byy 1927 local authorities and judges were less afraid of exposure. Rickard had wiggle room to operate with Tunney (II) and despite the law got it shown across the country.

[Biledriver]

I have seen . . .

Decent footage of Carpentier.
Poor footage of Firpo
Good footage of Gibbons
Poor footage of Tunney (I)
Decent footage of Sharkey
Good footage of Tunney (II)

They say there is footage of Brennan but I have not yet found it.

Anyone know of more?

Rickard got the Carpentier fight around the Sims Law (anti-boxing film moving across state borders, law) with bribes in 1921. The Harding Administration was corrupt across the country. Many copies made.

Rickard failed getting the Firpo fight out of New York State. New Coolidge Adminstration was as clean as a hound's tooth. Bribes didn't work. Fewer copies avaiable for survival.

Shelby fight was confiscated before screening by the government. No copies made. But original negative laid dormant until the repeal of the law in 1940. Good copies made from it.

Tunney (I) was filmed in the rain. Poor footage to start with. Few viewings outside of Philadelphia possible. Few copies made.

Tunney (II) the 'long count' so excited the nation Rickard was once again able to skirt the law. Shown across the country. Many copies were made. Much was preserved.*


* by 1927 the Coolidge Administration was not as aggressive after 1925. Two things had changed: Coolidge had lost a son while in the White House and was less interested in most things. More importantly the GOP had put a few years behind them since the scandals of 1922 and subsequent trials in 1924, so byy 1927 local authorities and judges were less afraid of exposure. Rickard had wiggle room to operate with Tunney (II) and despite the law got it shown across the country.

I have footage of the second Brennan fight, about 10:30. The film is a bit grainy but decent for the era. However, I just checked You Tube and they have a 15 minute clip that was colorized. Looks like You Tube has a lot of Dempsey footage.

[Willie Pep 229]

I have footage of the second Brennan fight, about 10:30. The film is a bit grainy but decent for the era. However, I just checked You Tube and they have a 15 minute clip that was colorized. Looks like You Tube has a lot of Dempsey footage.

Nice. Thank you. I never thought to look actually. I didn't expect to find any. Same with Miske.

This is what I would call a decent presentation. The colonization makes it better to view even if it's bogus in its rendition.

Looks to be filmed at 18 FPS, making is jerk about. But's normal for 1920.

The 1927 Tunney (II) fight has a smooth feel about it.

It was sometime in the middle to late 1920s that the switch ftom 18 to 24 was made. The sound synced up better with 24 FPS. They had lip sync capabilities as early as 1922, but it didn't dominate until 1927 and the Jazz Singer.

Back to the fight. Thanks again for telling me to look.

[Willie Pep 229]

I have footage of the second Brennan fight, about 10:30. The film is a bit grainy but decent for the era. However, I just checked You Tube and they have a 15 minute clip that was colorized. Looks like You Tube has a lot of Dempsey footage.

OK I am su****ious!

How come I can't see the body shot that set up the right hand KO?

Did Dempsey go low again? It seems to have been clipped out.

I do know that in the limited release the Fripo fight got in New York theaters, Doc Kearns went to the theaters and clipped out the footage of Dempsey going out of the ring. He changed the timeline to stop the challenge about the count.

So they say.

I'm going to get conspiracy minded here.

It is unlikely that this film made it out of the New York area 1920.

So did Kearns go around destroying footage of the missing "round two"?

Did he cut out Dempsey getting hurt by the uppercut and that's why we don't have it?

Also did Kearns clip out the body shot because it was low?

I know it sounds silly but Kearns was capable of damn near anything.

Now for the Non-Conspiracy theory.

Old fight films often had the knock outs played over and over by the viewers and they often burned up the films by freezing the knock out frames.

This is what most historians think happened to the Corbett-Fitzsimmons knock out. The best we have today are various frames pieced together from several films. In almost every copy the knock out was damaged to some extent.

But I can't see the body shot here. That was the big punch, not the right hand that put Brennan down. Was it Kearns doing his thing?

[Biledriver]

OK I am su****ious!

How come I can't see the body shot that set up the right hand KO?

Did Dempsey go low again? It seems to have been clipped out.

I do know that in the limited release the Fripo fight got in New York theaters, Doc Kearns went to the theaters and clipped out the footage of Dempsey going out of the ring. He changed the timeline to stop the challenge about the count.

So they say.

I'm going to get conspiracy minded here.

It is unlikely that this film made it out of the New York area 1920.

So did Kearns go around destroying footage of the missing "round two"?

Did he cut out Dempsey getting hurt by the uppercut and that's why we don't have it?

Also did Kearns clip out the body shot because it was low?

I know it sounds silly but Kearns was capable of damn near anything.

Now for the Non-Conspiracy theory.

Old fight films often had the knock outs played over and over by the viewers and they often burned up the films by freezing the knock out frames.

This is what most historians think happened to the Corbett-Fitzsimmons knock out. The best we have today are various frames pieced together from several films. In almost every copy the knock out was damaged to some extent.

But I can't see the body shot here. That was the big punch, not the right hand that put Brennan down. Was it Kearns doing his thing?

Where Kearns was concerned anything is possible. You Tube is usually good source for fight footage in general.

[QueensburyRules]

I have seen . . .

Decent footage of Carpentier.
Poor footage of Firpo
Good footage of Gibbons
Poor footage of Tunney (I)
Decent footage of Sharkey
Good footage of Tunney (II)

They say there is footage of Brennan but I have not yet found it.

Anyone know of more?

Rickard got the Carpentier fight around the Sims Law (anti-boxing film moving across state borders, law) with bribes in 1921. The Harding Administration was corrupt across the country. Many copies made.

Rickard failed getting the Firpo fight out of New York State. New Coolidge Adminstration was as clean as a hound's tooth. Bribes didn't work. Fewer copies avaiable for survival.

Shelby fight was confiscated before screening by the government. No copies made. But original negative laid dormant until the repeal of the law in 1940. Good copies made from it.

Tunney (I) was filmed in the rain. Poor footage to start with. Few viewings outside of Philadelphia possible. Few copies made.

Tunney (II) the 'long count' so excited the nation Rickard was once again able to skirt the law. Shown across the country. Many copies were made. Much was preserved.*


* by 1927 the Coolidge Administration was not as aggressive after 1925. Two things had changed: Coolidge had lost a son while in the White House and was less interested in most things. More importantly the GOP had put a few years behind them since the scandals of 1922 and subsequent trials in 1924, so byy 1927 local authorities and judges were less afraid of exposure. Rickard had wiggle room to operate with Tunney (II) and despite the law got it shown across the country.

- - Seen all that you've seen save Tunney2 was hardly much better than 1 that made me conclude what with the chopped up footage that I saw made judging the fight impossible.

The Tunney and Dempsey knockdowns in the 2nd fight were good and at least instrumental in knowing how that fight went.

I understand Dempsey was deathly dehydrated in both fights because of an intestinal disorder. Care to shed any light of what you know about it?