Ali vs. Foreman. 50 years ago

[max baer]

I really do believe that foreman may have won by knockout if the fight was on schedule in new york or vegas or anywhere in the usa with just a small build up. I say this because watching when we were kings I could see how deeply sad foreman was made by the whole country singing ali's praises and no one liking big george. These boxers are human beings (albeit very special ones) and I always look at the psychology of men who fight and see how their minds can cause them to lose despite their currrent form at the time of the fight. I recall eubank being terrified when he learned that steve collins was using hypnosis to beat him and I recall when tim witherspoon got the better of bruno during the weigh in.
Fury claims he beat wlad in the sauna by staying in there the longest. These things matter to me ireally feel they do. It doesn't always mean that the fight is won by the guy who wins the psychological battle but I really feel we neglect to see this extremely important fact. In tyson vs bruno 2 it was said that in iron mikes changing room all these gangsters and rappers when making noise and bruno got really intimidated and that made him seize up on the ring walk.
If you watch when we were kings you can see how upset big george felt as the weeks went by in zaire and the whole country was shouting ali boomoyae meaning ali kill him and i feel that george lost his strength and felt beaten and after that loss he went through severe breakdown and luckly he came back as a happy preacher. But do any of you guys spend any time looking that the immediate pyschology of fighters and how much that affects them? Like the army would say "he's got the momentum and gaining the momentum is everything. George was on a winning streak up to ali fight yet he said in zaire "why do the fans not like me I am blacker then ali why are they against me? It really got to him as it would get to anyone. if the fight happened in new york say after just a short time I think big george had the momentum. The zaire trip destroyed foreman's confidence and pride. Just my view on it all in the rumble in the jungle.
this is an enjoyable video about the greatest fight of the last century. queeny knows more then me about mobuto sesse seiko! maybe he can expand on that.

[Bronson66]

You are absolutely correct. We don’t need these personal attacks here.

Queenie makes more negative personal attacks than anyone,if you give it ,be prepared to take it!

[billeau2]

I really do believe that foreman may have won by knockout if the fight was on schedule in new york or vegas or anywhere in the usa with just a small build up. I say this because watching when we were kings I could see how deeply sad foreman was made by the whole country singing ali's praises and no one liking big george. These boxers are human beings (albeit very special ones) and I always look at the psychology of men who fight and see how their minds can cause them to lose despite their currrent form at the time of the fight. I recall eubank being terrified when he learned that steve collins was using hypnosis to beat him and I recall when tim witherspoon got the better of bruno during the weigh in.
Fury claims he beat wlad in the sauna by staying in there the longest. These things matter to me ireally feel they do. It doesn't always mean that the fight is won by the guy who wins the psychological battle but I really feel we neglect to see this extremely important fact. In tyson vs bruno 2 it was said that in iron mikes changing room all these gangsters and rappers when making noise and bruno got really intimidated and that made him seize up on the ring walk.
If you watch when we were kings you can see how upset big george felt as the weeks went by in zaire and the whole country was shouting ali boomoyae meaning ali kill him and i feel that george lost his strength and felt beaten and after that loss he went through severe breakdown and luckly he came back as a happy preacher. But do any of you guys spend any time looking that the immediate pyschology of fighters and how much that affects them? Like the army would say "he's got the momentum and gaining the momentum is everything. George was on a winning streak up to ali fight yet he said in zaire "why do the fans not like me I am blacker then ali why are they against me? It really got to him as it would get to anyone. if the fight happened in new york say after just a short time I think big george had the momentum. The zaire trip destroyed foreman's confidence and pride. Just my view on it all in the rumble in the jungle.
this is an enjoyable video about the greatest fight of the last century. queeny knows more then me about mobuto sesse seiko! maybe he can expand on that.

Musashi is often called the greatest swordsman that ever lived... Those in the know laugh at such an admonition. Musashi was a decent swordsman who had incredible skills as a warrior. He was "that guy" whom is a rodeo star in some dusty town, or whom grew up in Brooklyn and was known as the real hood tough guy... The guys that are recruited by the Navy Seals who will make the cut, etc. Like "that guy" who we know of, Musashi was not a knuckle dragger, he was mart and he won his battles psychologically. Perhaps the best swordsman he beat was prince Koto whom he met off a island to duel to the death. Musashi enraged Koto by rowing back and fourth and taunting him until the hapless prince, wanting to get this done came out into the tide... Musashi had taken his mobility... Musashi realizing when length and distance means the difference between life and death never even drew his sword. he took the very long oar for his boat and bashed the prince's head in until his brains went to Davey Jones locker...

The point is: how Ali won is besides the point. CusAmato once told Mike Tyson that a boxing ring is the only place in civilized society where homicide is legal... Which is to say, in a real fight which becomes chess (because of the potential fates involved) and not checkers, what Ali did was skill and artifice as much as throwing the jab properly.

[JAB5239]

Musashi is often called the greatest swordsman that ever lived... Those in the know laugh at such an admonition. Musashi was a decent swordsman who had incredible skills as a warrior. He was "that guy" whom is a rodeo star in some dusty town, or whom grew up in Brooklyn and was known as the real hood tough guy... The guys that are recruited by the Navy Seals who will make the cut, etc. Like "that guy" who we know of, Musashi was not a knuckle dragger, he was mart and he won his battles psychologically. Perhaps the best swordsman he beat was prince Koto whom he met off a island to duel to the death. Musashi enraged Koto by rowing back and fourth and taunting him until the hapless prince, wanting to get this done came out into the tide... Musashi had taken his mobility... Musashi realizing when length and distance means the difference between life and death never even drew his sword. he took the very long oar for his boat and bashed the prince's head in until his brains went to Davey Jones locker...

The point is: how Ali won is besides the point. CusAmato once told Mike Tyson that a boxing ring is the only place in civilized society where homicide is legal... Which is to say, in a real fight which becomes chess (because of the potential fates involved) and not checkers, what Ali did was skill and artifice as much as throwing the jab properly.

Awesome post!!

[billeau2]

Awesome post!!

Thanks brother! I enjoy the privilege of having a community of like minded individuals, a peer group, that I can share my insights with.

[BattlingNelson]

Queenie makes more negative personal attacks than anyone,if you give it ,be prepared to take it!

He often gets gang****d on here, but yeah. It goes for him as well.

It's tiresome to read those personal attacks.

[JAB5239]

He often gets gang****d on here, but yeah. It goes for him as well.

It's tiresome to read those personal attacks.

Here's the problem......This poster has beef with just about every poster he comes into contact with. He insults everyone with an air of superiority. Thing is, that superiority is brought on thru either intentional lies, flaming or ignorance. Once in awhile? OK. But this is a daily thing in nearly every post. With all due respect to you, boxingscene and it's administration, if it doesnt want the stench that comes with this, maybe they should toss out the rotten head of cabbage stinking the room up. You're a good guy, but we've been round and round on many issues. I've been round and round with plenty of other posters here. So have you I'm sure, as well as many others. But when you have a problem with nearly every poster and feel the need to degrade them, I don't feel bad for the crap that gets blown back at them. I'm gonna guess (only a guess) you will say use the ignore feature. My problem with that is ignoring a problem has never solved it. This site should be cognizant of who is repeatedly being a troll, not the people who have fired back. Two wrongs don't make a right, but sooner or later you need to chop the head off the snake. Mind you, I'm not lobbying for ANYONE to be banned. But if you want to get this under control you need to get the main antagonist under control. If not, there will always be new posters that are going to keep going against that, even if you got rid of the ones just responding. Just my two cents.

[BattlingNelson]

Here's the problem......This poster has beef with just about every poster he comes into contact with. He insults everyone with an air of superiority. Thing is, that superiority is brought on thru either intentional lies, flaming or ignorance. Once in awhile? OK. But this is a daily thing in nearly every post. With all due respect to you, boxingscene and its administration, if it doesnt want the stench that comes with this, maybe they should toss out the rotten head of cabbage stinking the room up. You're a good guy, but we've been round and round on many issues. I've been round and round with plenty of other posters here. So have you I'm sure, as well as many others. But when you have a problem with nearly every poster and feel the need to degrade them, I don't feel bad for the crap that gets blown back at them. I'm gonna guess (only a guess) you will say use the ignore feature. My problem with that is ignoring a problem has never solved it. This site should be cognizant of who is repeatedly being a troll, not the people who have fired back. Two wrongs don't make a right, but sooner or later you need to chop the head off the snake. Mind you, I'm not lobbying for ANYONE to be banned. But if you want to get this under control you need to get the main antagonist under control. If not, there will always be new posters that are going to keep going against that, even if you got rid of the ones just responding. Just my two cents.

This partly the truth. It’s also about queenie not being allowed to post anything without being called alcoholic or worse. Always there is this unprovoked name calling. It’s annoying to me that people just can’t stfu if they don’t have anything constructive to say about the subject but then goes to attack the man and not the ball. Why do some people more often than not, feed the troll?

As you know my mod powers are feeble. Had they not been that, I can assure you that some people had been on vacations here.

[JAB5239]

This partly the truth. It’s also about queenie not being allowed to post anything without being called alcoholic or worse. Always there is this unprovoked name calling. It’s annoying to me that people just can’t stfu if they don’t have anything constructive to say about the subject but then goes to attack the man and not the ball. Why do some people more often than not, feed the troll?

As you know my mod powers are feeble. Had they not been that, I can assure you that some people had been on vacations here.

Been there. I get it. But if you go back and look at many of these conversations, they started it with a reply that WAS meant to be constructive only to be met with an insult or a bunch of lies. How many times to we have to hear the same ridicule of fighters EVEN when it has nothing to do with the thread?

[BattlingNelson]

Been there. I get it. But if you go back and look at many of these conversations, they started it with a reply that WAS meant to be constructive only to be met with an insult or a bunch of lies. How many times to we have to hear the same ridicule of fighters EVEN when it has nothing to do with the thread?

How many times have you (and others) taken the high road after being met an insult or bunch of lies? Why do you guys consistently ‘feed the troll’? Has that method ever worked? Has it ever done this place friendlier?