Why not Holmes over Ali?

[Bronson66]

PRODUCE your source with a link ( or photo ) or as I said before STFU.

BOX REC IS THE SOURCE YOU ****** ****
THOSE ARE THE END OF THE YEAR RATINGS!
He wasn't ranked the year before and he wasn ranked until the end of that year!
How hard is it for you to grasp this?

Williams got a title shot because the IBF whose title it was ,had made him their no8 contender.

He was unranked by The Ring when he challenged Holmes!


Good God You Are Dumb!

[billeau2]

Well we know one here who hates him!

Yeah... at least one lol. Funny thing is, Ali was so approachable. There really was not a reason to hate him. I mean he was by no means perfect... His personality sometimes reminds me a bit of Carl Jung, the very famous Swiss Psychoanalyst who was a student of Freud. The man wrote brilliant things for sure... But when they did a documentary about him "Habits of the heart" you saw this entire other side to him. It turned out he was very kind, very special... You would have people that worked for him as domestics laughing about how he was such a wise guy... They conveyed this quality that Jung cared about them, treated them as equals and had this delightful reparte with them... As someone who was a fan of his works it blew my mind... Psychoanalysis is very dry. even though Freud was a pioneer because he actually talked to women instead of just cutting their Uterus out, (standard treatment for hysterical women), the talk was dry lol. It was a start... But Jung was apparently a real mammal!

I bring this up because Ali would do things like spar with martial artists and When he could have levelled them, he chose to uplift them. And always managing to maintain this fine line of respect and humor (hard to do back in the day lol). Ali was always an ambassador for martial arts, and was loved by such icons in the field as Richard Chun (Korean Karate NYC) Joon Rhe (Washington), George Dillman (before Dillman went off the reservation with his no touch crapolla).

[Dr. Z]

BOX REC IS THE SOURCE YOU ****** ****
THOSE ARE THE END OF THE YEAR RATINGS!
He wasn't ranked the year before and he wasn ranked until the end of that year! How hard is it for you to grasp this? Williams got a title shot because the IBF whose title it was had made him the no8 contender.He was unranked by The Ring when he challenged Holmes!


Good God You Are Dumb!

SHOW ME he was not ranked by ring magazine. As in proff. A link or photo will do, otherwise STFU!!! You sad old man. Am I supposed to beleve that he got ranked based on win over in his next fight after Holmes with Jesse Ferguson?

[Bronson66]

SHOW ME he was not ranked by ring ****zine. As in proff. A link or photo will do, otherwise STFU!!! You sad old man. Am I supposed to beleve that he got ranked based on win over in his next fight after Holmes with Jesse Ferguson?

I'll try to explain this to you one last time.

Williams, whose only win over any kind of a name up to then , was over a used up James Tillis, was unranked by Ring Magazine when he fought Holmes on May 20th1985
Ring ranked him in the END OF THE YEAR RATINGS on the basis off his excellent effort against Holmes.

THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE SEEING AND MISUNDERSTANDING!
Williams got his chance at Holmes IBF title because he was ranked no8 by them.He was not RING ranked in May 1985!
Now have you finally understood that?

[Bronson66]

Yeah... at least one lol. Funny thing is, Ali was so approachable. There really was not a reason to hate him. I mean he was by no means perfect... His personality sometimes reminds me a bit of Carl Jung, the very famous Swiss Psychoanalyst who was a student of Freud. The man wrote brilliant things for sure... But when they did a documentary about him "Habits of the heart" you saw this entire other side to him. It turned out he was very kind, very special... You would have people that worked for him as domestics laughing about how he was such a wise guy... They conveyed this quality that Jung cared about them, treated them as equals and had this delightful reparte with them... As someone who was a fan of his works it blew my mind... Psychoanalysis is very dry. even though Freud was a pioneer because he actually talked to women instead of just cutting their Uterus out, (standard treatment for hysterical women), the talk was dry lol. It was a start... But Jung was apparently a real mammal!

I bring this up because Ali would do things like spar with martial artists and When he could have levelled them, he chose to uplift them. And always managing to maintain this fine line of respect and humor (hard to do back in the day lol). Ali was always an ambassador for martial arts, and was loved by such icons in the field as Richard Chun (Korean Karate NYC) Joon Rhe (Washington), George Dillman (before Dillman went off the reservation with his no touch crapolla).

George Dillman,I think he began to believe his own crap!
How about Count Dante?lol

[JAB5239]

Yes I did, and Wherspoon never looked better. Bey was ranked #3 by ring ****zine and Williams was ranked by ring ****zine ( #8 ) as well. You see, I answer your questions. Holmes was an older fighter fighting younger men.

Now will you stop switching the record? I ask YOU again, did you see the Young vs. Ali fight? And the 3rd Noton fight? Who do you think won them and if Holmes was in 1977 or 1978 vs. Ali, who do you think wins?

Williams couldn't have been ranked 8th before the Holmes fight because James Broad was 8th at the end of the year and didn't lose until a month before Holmes-Williams. So how would he have leapfrogged Cooney and Smith, if at all?

You say it was Witherspoons best fight (arguable) but dont say anything about his limited experience and never getting a rematch. Id bet cash money Ali's resume while not only far better, but that his opponents fought more top 10 rated contenders before and after their respective fights, than Holmes opponents. And i say that without having looked into that angle.

[billeau2]

George Dillman,I think he began to believe his own crap!
How about Count Dante?lol

Ok this may take a few paragraphs so bare with me.

Dillman used to be legit... He started on this craziness because he became convinced there was some secret aspect to karate forms. Like so many things in life, there is a bit of truth that has long since left the building regarding his claim. There is a text known as the Bubishi which claims to lay down the roots of karate from older forms of Chinese boxing, etc. Some of the Okinawans that practiced karate obviously had some knowledge of Chinese medicine, and perhaps some of this did find its way into the forms. There are more moderate approaches that make sense regarding this understanding. Taken as a point of discovery, yes, certain points on the body are useful, and they do go together well when karate is used properly ( as a grappling/hitting system). Like if I poke you in your lung point over your breast as I am throwing you... Yes I might cause you to not have air when you land, if done properly. BY the way: you have to hit it with some force and alllll these guys, despite their claims hit you hard! hard enough so that the point is often negligable.

Dillman went totally extreme... The base problem with these claims is EVEN in Chinese texts and the Bubishi the knowledge is pretty basic. karate masters were often not well educated, but even if they were, they were not Chinese medical doctors. So Dillman consequently had to "discover" these applications, which have been fiercely debunked... I mean you can watch this for some nice cringe...



Dante is very interesting I actually made a group of online friends, one guy was going to do a movie on John Keehan and he had a dust up with some of the craziest characters one could run into in Falls River MA. This being where Dante/Keehan left us after dying from stress related ulcers. I wound up befriending both groups and I believe there is actually an affection between both parties, amongst the craziness. The movie did not get made yet...

But heres the interesting thing. John Keehan was actually a legit Robert Trias Black Belt in Gojo Ryu karate. I myself am a Nidan second degree in Sh Ran Ryu Karate, a sister style among other styles. But Keehan went to Chicago and did train people in the ******s. he was very good and his students could fight. Trias himself had a reputation for not wanting to teach in the cities... for whatever reason, and was lauded as a pioneer in karate.

Keehan became "Count Dante" much as why the Paul Brothers scam kids into buying ****** that is worthless. He wanted to make money... And he did, making fantastic claims about death matches, etc. The one element of truth to his story is tragic and it did destroy him, probably being the reason why he died a broken stressed man. Dante popularized a form of combat in the inner cities (we did it also in baltimore) known as Dojo storming. you went to someone's school and called them out, mayem would follow. Someone was killed when Dante did such a thing, and started a fight between the Green and Black Dragons. One of his best friends was stabbed in the chest and died.

Did you know that Keehan was a Hollywood level hair stylist? Lol it is true. He was extremely talented in self promotion. I wish boxers would look at him! Knowing that a humane organization for animals would stop him, Keehan walked a Bull down State street in Chicago, claiming that he would kill it with one blow. He got people's attention lol. He made a mint off his comic book adds and booklets sold. I actually have one for posterity... garbage but people loved it.

[billeau2]

Williams couldn't have been ranked 8th before the Holmes fight because James Broad was 8th at the end of the year and didn't lose until a month before Holmes-Williams. So how would he have leapfrogged Cooney and Smith, if at all?

You say it was Witherspoons best fight (arguable) but dont say anything about his limited experience and never getting a rematch. Id bet cash money Ali's resume while not only far better, but that his opponents fought more top 10 rated contenders before and after their respective fights, than Holmes opponents. And i say that without having looked into that angle.

Indeed! Many would call Witherspoon's best fight when he beat Frank Bruno...

[Bronson66]

Ok this may take a few paragraphs so bare with me.

Dillman used to be legit... He started on this craziness because he became convinced there was some secret aspect to karate forms. Like so many things in life, there is a bit of truth that has long since left the building regarding his claim. There is a text known as the Bubishi which claims to lay down the roots of karate from older forms of Chinese boxing, etc. Some of the Okinawans that practiced karate obviously had some knowledge of Chinese medicine, and perhaps some of this did find its way into the forms. There are more moderate approaches that make sense regarding this understanding. Taken as a point of discovery, yes, certain points on the body are useful, and they do go together well when karate is used properly ( as a grappling/hitting system). Like if I poke you in your lung point over your breast as I am throwing you... Yes I might cause you to not have air when you land, if done properly. BY the way: you have to hit it with some force and alllll these guys, despite their claims hit you hard! hard enough so that the point is often negligable.

Dillman went totally extreme... The base problem with these claims is EVEN in Chinese texts and the Bubishi the knowledge is pretty basic. karate masters were often not well educated, but even if they were, they were not Chinese medical doctors. So Dillman consequently had to "discover" these applications, which have been fiercely debunked... I mean you can watch this for some nice cringe...



Dante is very interesting I actually made a group of online friends, one guy was going to do a movie on John Keehan and he had a dust up with some of the craziest characters one could run into in Falls River MA. This being where Dante/Keehan left us after dying from stress related ulcers. I wound up befriending both groups and I believe there is actually an affection between both parties, amongst the craziness. The movie did not get made yet...

But heres the interesting thing. John Keehan was actually a legit Robert Trias Black Belt in Gojo Ryu karate. I myself am a Nidan second degree in Sh Ran Ryu Karate, a sister style among other styles. But Keehan went to Chicago and did train people in the ******s. he was very good and his students could fight. Trias himself had a reputation for not wanting to teach in the cities... for whatever reason, and was lauded as a pioneer in karate.

Keehan became "Count Dante" much as why the Paul Brothers scam kids into buying ****** that is worthless. He wanted to make money... And he did, making fantastic claims about death matches, etc. The one element of truth to his story is tragic and it did destroy him, probably being the reason why he died a broken stressed man. Dante popularized a form of combat in the inner cities (we did it also in baltimore) known as Dojo storming. you went to someone's school and called them out, mayem would follow. Someone was killed when Dante did such a thing, and started a fight between the Green and Black Dragons. One of his best friends was stabbed in the chest and died.

Did you know that Keehan was a Hollywood level hair stylist? Lol it is true. He was extremely talented in self promotion. I wish boxers would look at him! Knowing that a humane organization for animals would stop him, Keehan walked a Bull down State street in Chicago, claiming that he would kill it with one blow. He got people's attention lol. He made a mint off his comic book adds and booklets sold. I actually have one for posterity... garbage but people loved it.

I like the Chinese MMA guy who goes around taking on these "Masters,"and unceremoniously beats the **** out of them.
His videos entertain me.

[Dr. Z]

Williams couldn't have been ranked 8th before the Holmes fight because James Broad was 8th at the end of the year and didn't lose until a month before Holmes-Williams. So how would he have leapfrogged Cooney and Smith, if at all?

You say it was Witherspoons best fight (arguable) but dont say anything about his limited experience and never getting a rematch. Id bet cash money Ali's resume while not only far better, but that his opponents fought more top 10 rated contenders before and after their respective fights, than Holmes opponents. And i say that without having looked into that angle.

Look, stop using annual ratings that for BOX REC archived MONTHS later after they fought. Produce a source that listed the ratings in t MAY 1985, okay? APRIL or MAY 1985 ratings. Can you? Now Wiliams is listed in the 1985 annual ratings which came out a few months after the fight.


You are not as &tupid or as bigoted as Ivich. As for why didn't Holmes rematch Witherspoon ask Don King that question.

Why didn't Ali rematch Young? It is a fight where he received bad / incompetent judgement. Take your pick.

You still did not answer my questions though I routinely answer yours.

Now will you stop switching the record? I ask YOU again, did you see the Young vs. Ali fight? And the 3rd Noton fight? Who do you think won them and if Holmes was in 1977 or 1978 vs. Ali, who do you think wins? Asking you. You don't have ADHD,do you?