Is Moorer Hall of fame worthy?

[JAB5239]

Found this on Facebook today. Some impressive stats.

Is #michael #moorer hall of fame worthy?

Won lightheavy world title within only 9 months of pro debut.

Highest ring ****zine ranking after 1 year of pro debut.
Debut march 1988, #Ring #NO3 January 1989

Youngest lightheavy to win a version of a lightheavy world title in history. 21 years.

Most consecutive kos in lightheavy world title defences #9
20 straight kos at 175lb

First southpaw to win a heavyweight world title.

Identical fight record to mike tyson on route to winning a lineal heavyweight world title.
35-0 31kos.

The only boxer in history ever to win a world title at lightheavy, then go onto win a heavyweight world title on more than 1 separate occasion.

In june 1996 became first heavyweight since Muhammed ali, to win a version of a heavyweight world title 3x seperately.

Joint 2nd with mike tyson in having the highest ko% on route to winning a lineal heavyweight championship. 88.9 %

The only southpaw ever ever to win a lineal heavyweight world championship.

Along with usyk the only southpaws to hold a unified heavyweight world championship.

[IronDanHamza]

Nice stats on paper but realistically his resume is very poor outside of his win over Holyfield.

So I’d say no.

[Willie Pep 229]

Found this on Facebook today. Some impressive stats.

Is #michael #moorer hall of fame worthy?

Won lightheavy world title within only 9 months of pro debut.

Highest ring ****zine ranking after 1 year of pro debut.
Debut march 1988, #Ring #NO3 January 1989

Youngest lightheavy to win a version of a lightheavy world title in history. 21 years.

Most consecutive kos in lightheavy world title defences #9
20 straight kos at 175lb

First southpaw to win a heavyweight world title.

Identical fight record to mike tyson on route to winning a lineal heavyweight world title.
35-0 31kos.

The only boxer in history ever to win a world title at lightheavy, then go onto win a heavyweight world title on more than 1 separate occasion.

In june 1996 became first heavyweight since Muhammed ali, to win a version of a heavyweight world title 3x seperately.

Joint 2nd with mike tyson in having the highest ko% on route to winning a lineal heavyweight championship. 88.9 %

The only southpaw ever ever to win a lineal heavyweight world championship.

Along with usyk the only southpaws to hold a unified heavyweight world championship.

Yes!

Don't care for the stats in red; but do think the blue highlighted statements get him there.

I think the red highlights are based on scantioning body straps and that's not impressive.

The blue highlights are good enough noise to put a lineal HW Champion in the Hall.

In fact shouldn't all the lineal HW Champions be in by some kind of default?

Even Neon Leon should be remembered at some level.

[JAB5239]

Yes!

Don't care for the stats in red; but do think the blue highlighted statements get him there.

I think the red highlights are based on scantioning body straps and that's not impressive.

The blue highlights are good enough noise to put a lineal HW Champion in the Hall.

In fact shouldn't all the lineal HW Champions be in by some kind of default?

Even Neon Leon should be remembered at some level.

I get your point about lineal. I also agree with Dan though. Moorer was always one punch from losing, he was very vulnerable in my opinion. Right now I'm on the fence hoping someone can change my mind in either direction.

[QueensburyRules]

- - I'd say yes, Moorer's as good or better than many in the IBHOF who a couple years ago elected a female HOFer who never fought a single pro fight or was otherwise involved in boxing at any level other than promoting herself as HOF boxer.

Certainly loony Teddy did his part in lowering the bar of admittance.

[Slugfester]

Found this on Facebook today. Some impressive stats.

Is #michael #moorer hall of fame worthy?

Won lightheavy world title within only 9 months of pro debut.

Highest ring ****zine ranking after 1 year of pro debut.
Debut march 1988, #Ring #NO3 January 1989

Youngest lightheavy to win a version of a lightheavy world title in history. 21 years.

Most consecutive kos in lightheavy world title defences #9
20 straight kos at 175lb

First southpaw to win a heavyweight world title.

Identical fight record to mike tyson on route to winning a lineal heavyweight world title.
35-0 31kos.

The only boxer in history ever to win a world title at lightheavy, then go onto win a heavyweight world title on more than 1 separate occasion.

In june 1996 became first heavyweight since Muhammed ali, to win a version of a heavyweight world title 3x seperately.

Joint 2nd with mike tyson in having the highest ko% on route to winning a lineal heavyweight championship. 88.9 %

The only southpaw ever ever to win a lineal heavyweight world championship.

Along with usyk the only southpaws to hold a unified heavyweight world championship.

My short answer is: He is a borderline case.

Being the first southpaw means nothing at all, along with most of the list. The marquee highlights, even on paper, are thin and composed of a lot of made up categories because he is short on legacy. No one should care what someone's KO ratio was before they got exposed, when it comes to HOF entry. Who was the Venezuelan featherweight who ran up such a string of KOs a decade or so ago? If he makes the Hall it is because he is already there. No one cares anymore what his KO percentage was. Long KO strings are a thing that seems to happen more frequently in the modern age, probably because of careful matchmaking for promotion purposes and the the dilution of talent across 4 ABC orgs.

If every lineal Heavyweight champ gets automatic entry, should every lineal non-heavy champ get in as well?

Johannsen could probably give Moorer a good match, if not beat him. Historical coincidence and historical timing are maybe not enough to make the real HOF, which does not exist in any building full of photos and belts.

[joseph5620]

I would say no but I'm sure there are boxers in the HOF with resumes that are no better.

[QueensburyRules]

My short answer is: He is a borderline case.

Being the first southpaw means nothing at all, along with most of the list. The marquee highlights, even on paper, are thin and composed of a lot of made up categories because he is short on legacy. No one should care what someone's KO ratio was before they got exposed, when it comes to HOF entry. Who was the Venezuelan featherweight who ran up such a string of KOs a decade or so ago? If he makes the Hall it is because he is already there. No one cares anymore what his KO percentage was. Long KO strings are a thing that seems to happen more frequently in the modern age, probably because of careful matchmaking for promotion purposes and the the dilution of talent across 4 ABC orgs.

If every lineal Heavyweight champ gets automatic entry, should every lineal non-heavy champ get in as well?

Johannsen could probably give Moorer a good match, if not beat him. Historical coincidence and historical timing are maybe not enough to make the real HOF, which does not exist in any building full of photos and belts.

- - Being the first southpaw is quite significant given the dearth of southpaws in boxing history because they had to convert to Orthodox in order to compete.

Imagine the Baseball HOF without southpaws, I mean it would be joke. Today Lefties hold near half the belts in spite of being a minority, approx 12% of the global population.

Head to head Moorer beats most hvy champs in history, and most certainly Ingo and Floyd, but that's strictly fantasy since every fighter is limited to the competition in his day.

David Tua never won a belt, but BTFO of Rahman and Ruiz who did hold belts as well as Moorer, yet Tua frozen out with just a single title challenge vs Lewie.

Knockouts have always been highly significant, taking it out of the judges' hands, I mean really!

[Slugfester]

- - Being the first southpaw is quite significant given the dearth of southpaws in boxing history because they had to convert to Orthodox in order to compete.

Imagine the Baseball HOF without southpaws, I mean it would be joke. Today Lefties hold near half the belts in spite of being a minority, approx 12% of the global population.

Head to head Moorer beats most hvy champs in history, and most certainly Ingo and Floyd, but that's strictly fantasy since every fighter is limited to the competition in his day.

David Tua never won a belt, but BTFO of Rahman and Ruiz who did hold belts as well as Moorer, yet Tua frozen out with just a single title challenge vs Lewie.

Knockouts have always been highly significant, taking it out of the judges' hands, I mean really!

But being the first southpaw heavyweight champion is a mere footnote, my friend, a curiosity--nothing to get excited about or the kind of thing to award legacy points for. I don't want to hurt your feelings, but your baseball analogy doesn't really have a speck of relevance to where one should be ranked AT or whether they get into a HOF.

As for beating most heavyweight champs in history, that does not even seem to be a big deal these days. A big slice of fans believe most top contenders and paper champs of today would do the same thing. To build a good lead you only have to get by Sullivan up to Jefferies, who is tougher but doable. From the modern mass of fans' point of view there are only a few heavyweight champs of the past who might be legitimately considered a dangerous threat to later heavyweights.

Johnson
Dempsey
Tunney
Louis
Marciano

Those are about the only heavyweight champss from the past that could possibly give any trouble to those after Liston, says the modern fan from the masses. Good contenders would do the same thing to those forefathers, other than maybe the handful, says the modern fan.

Of course Moorer was a small heavy champ. But it ain't such a big deal to be seen as beating a majority of the past these days. They were small too.

We agree on Tua. He could easily have been a champ. Wish he had.

The featherweight's name was Edin Valero, I finally remembered without aid. He reached the championship early, I think, and had 26 or 27 straight KO's. That is what keeps the sport exciting, we agree, and even sometimes honest.

Even Gene Fullmer ran up an early KO streak though, so they can be deceptive and not reflect AT status.

[QueensburyRules]

But being the first southpaw heavyweight champion is a mere footnote, my friend, a curiosity--nothing to get excited about or the kind of thing to award legacy points for. I don't want to hurt your feelings, but your baseball analogy doesn't really have a speck of relevance to where one should be ranked AT or whether they get into a HOF.

As for beating most heavyweight champs in history, that does not even seem to be a big deal these days. A big slice of fans believe most top contenders and paper champs of today would do the same thing. To build a good lead you only have to get by Sullivan up to Jefferies, who is tougher but doable. From the modern mass of fans' point of view there are only a few heavyweight champs of the past who might be legitimately considered a dangerous threat to later heavyweights.

Johnson
Dempsey
Tunney
Louis
Marciano

Those are about the only heavyweight champss from the past that could possibly give any trouble to those after Liston, says the modern fan from the masses. Good contenders would do the same thing to those forefathers, other than maybe the handful, says the modern fan.

Of course Moorer was a small heavy champ. But it ain't such a big deal to be seen as beating a majority of the past these days. They were small too.

We agree on Tua. He could easily have been a champ. Wish he had.

The featherweight's name was Edin Valero, I finally remembered without aid. He reached the championship early, I think, and had 26 or 27 straight KO's. That is what keeps the sport exciting, we agree, and even sometimes honest.

Even Gene Fullmer ran up an early KO streak though, so they can be deceptive and not reflect AT status.

- - Baseball and Boxing define the 20th Century sporting world in North America more than any other sport.

John L played some handy minor league BBall, JJohnson a part time first baseman for Black Barnstorming Philly Giants along with Rube Foster who became the owner of the Chicago team that took JJ across to Canada to escape his guilty sentencing of his Mann Act verdict.

Frank Chance the Franchise Hero of the Chicago Cubs was said by Corbett and Sully to be mighty fine with his dukes in private club fights. When Human Fire Plug HOFer Hack Wilson was going to settle a feud with White Sox first baseman and reputed murderer Art Shires in a professional Boxing Ring, that Mighty Monument of Righteous, the 5-2 Kennesaw Mountain Judge Landis, the MLB Commish, aligned 100% with the Owners in banning players from the boxing ring at the risk of being banned from baseball.

You have made a classic mistake on the proportion of scale. As soon as Lefties were allowed to fight in their natural stance, they dominated by titles held the majority Orthodoxes who outnumber them 7 to 1. The fact that Boxing Holy Grail of fighter descriptions are height, weight, reach, and stance, not to mention birth origins and current residences that invoke both racial and nationalistic descriptors that carry on to this very day. The insignificance is you, not that being a lefty trapped in a orthodox world order.

Moorer was bigger than most all 20th Century champs.

Valero ran up a perfect cube of 3 record that reverberates beyond our world. 27 fights, 27 wins, 27 KOs.