Wilder versus Marciano who wins?

[Rosco3387]

This match up has some very intriguing elements... it would be nice to get some response along the lines of such elements: For one thing, Wilder weighed in for the hellanius fight at 214 pounds. The size queens have been told and it is confirmed that the average size for a punching heavyweight remains fairly constant. Wilder is at his best at his lightest... That is a fact because Wilder needs his foot speed and the extra weight does not help his punch.

Marciano never came into the ring with an advantage in reach... Lol. So Wilder's reach becomes less of an advantage. Also let us consider how Marciano stated (when narrating his fight) that maintaining a crouch at all times was important... We can deduce that Marciano would not be an easy target. Finally, while it seems absurd to put Marciano against gigantic heavyweights (seems so to some), there is no really absurd weight advantage for Wilder in this bout. it is exxagerated but, there is some truth to the fact that Marciano at least occasionally fought as the lighter guy.

Styles make fights. Wilder gets away using a relatively modern style of fighting, one also used by David Haye and Martinez: he stays away, far away, then ambushes his opponent. He gets away with this because there are no real pressure fighting heavyweights these days, with perhaps the exception of Chisora... but none as great as Marciano. Fighters today also make so many mistakes... helenius lunged and was wide open for the counter...

Marciano would not allow Wilder to fight in the ambush style in which Wilder likes to fight... he would pressure Wilder consistently. Marciano would be in a crouch and not be in a position to be hit like with no guard up, like so many of these fighters today.

[Bundana]

It's funny how people pick and chose their arguments - so they back up the end result you're looking for!

If you want Wilder to be "victorious" in a dream match like this, you will site his enormous advantages in height an reach - which, coupled with extraordinary punching power, would crush Rocky like a bug.

If, on the other hand, you're backing Marciano, those advantages become more or less irrelevant - to the point where Rocky's lack of size almost becomes an advantage (difficult to hit a smaller opponent fighting out of a crouch).

It's all fantasy, of course... so you can safely take your pick, without running the risk of being proven wrong!

[Willie Pep 229]

It's funny how people pick and chose their arguments - so they back up the end result you're looking for!

If you want Wilder to be "victorious" in a dream match like this, you will site his enormous advantages in height an reach - which, coupled with extraordinary punching power, would crush Rocky like a bug.

If, on the other hand, you're backing Marciano, those advantages become more or less irrelevant - to the point where Rocky's lack of size almost becomes an advantage (difficult to hit a smaller opponent fighting out of a crouch).

It's all fantasy, of course... so you can safely take your pick, without running the risk of being proven wrong!

No you're wrong about one thing, this ain't no "dream fight" -- ain't no one dreaming about seeing Wilder fight anybody, anymore.

[Ivich]

This match up has some very intriguing elements... it would be nice to get some response along the lines of such elements: For one thing, Wilder weighed in for the hellanius fight at 214 pounds. The size queens have been told and it is confirmed that the average size for a punching heavyweight remains fairly constant. Wilder is at his best at his lightest... That is a fact because Wilder needs his foot speed and the extra weight does not help his punch.

Marciano never came into the ring with an advantage in reach... Lol. So Wilder's reach becomes less of an advantage. Also let us consider how Marciano stated (when narrating his fight) that maintaining a crouch at all times was important... We can deduce that Marciano would not be an easy target. Finally, while it seems absurd to put Marciano against gigantic heavyweights (seems so to some), there is no really absurd weight advantage for Wilder in this bout. it is exxagerated but, there is some truth to the fact that Marciano at least occasionally fought as the lighter guy.

Styles make fights. Wilder gets away using a relatively modern style of fighting, one also used by David Haye and Martinez: he stays away, far away, then ambushes his opponent. He gets away with this because there are no real pressure fighting heavyweights these days, with perhaps the exception of Chisora... but none as great as Marciano. Fighters today also make so many mistakes... helanius lunged and was wide open for the counter...

Marciano would not allow Wilder to fight in the ambush style in which Wilder likes to fight... he would pressure Wilder consistently. Marciano would be in a crouch and not be in a position to be hit like with no guard up, like so many of these fighters today.

If you fight in a crouch you have to come out of it to punch effectively.

[Ivich]

No you're wrong about one thing, this ain't no "dream fight" -- ain't no one dreaming about seeing Wilder fight anybody, anymore.

Before the Helenius fight I posted the fight would tell us what Wilder had got left.
I was wrong, it told us nothing.

Helenius went down and out from a shot that did not look that devastating,obviously the fact that he was coming forward into the punch and that increased its power, but still.

I didn't like Helenius' body language going into this fight ,he looked nervous and not confident.

We need Wilder against a better test to assess what he has left imo.

The guy who impressed me on that bill was Frank Sanchez,he can box and appears to have a bit more snap on his shots now.

[Willow The Wisp]

I was rooting for Fury three times against Wilder. I just enjoyed his personality allot more, and he was my pick. Two of those fights provided some pretty anxious moments for me or anyone else rooting for this generation's premier boxer in the unlimited size division, while title claimant no. 3 was sitting out the round-robin tournament of champions taking a string of disappointing losses. I live for such moments. In those three fights Fury elevated his status amazingly. But it came at a cost. Every time you turned around Fury was found on the canvas groping for which way was was up. It wasn't a still reigning Wladamir Klitschko who was doing that to him, or anybody else. It was a guy who was in the process of forging his legend as perhaps the hartest hitting human being who ever lived. These criticisms of Wilder and his opposition to me are reminiscent of a foolish in retrospect piece I wrote, unfortunately published almost half a century ago entitled "Muhammad Ali is over rated". It makes me wonder what I was thinking having had published my sop****ric musings about the significance of a Sonny Banks flash knockdown, a Doug Jones "robbery", a Henry Cooper cut, a Cleveland Williams gut shot and other Yin-Yang sundries that in reality are part of a legend's challenging journey.
Wilder is a great fighter, an amazingly exciting figher, a future hall-of-fame level figher if Ken Norton, Chalky Wright, Sammy Angott, Matthew Saad Muhammad, Lew Jenkins, Eusebio Pedroza, Randy Turpin, Curtis Cokes, Mike McCallum, Dwight Braxton, Daniel Zaragoza, Barry McGuigan, Terry Norris, Edwin Rosario, Eddie Perkins, Lloyd Marshall, Herbert Hardwick, Mark Johnson, Arturo Gatti, Rid**** Bowe, Ray Mancini, Vitali Klitschko, Winky Wright, Buddy McGirt, Andre Ward and James freekin' Toney get in; and he will too if I have have anything to say about it; and if I live long enough - I will.

[QueensburyRules]

Before the Helenius fight I posted the fight would tell us what Wilder had got left.
I was wrong, it told us nothing.

Helenius went down and out from a shot that did not look that devastating,obviously the fact that he was coming forward into the punch and that increased its power, but still.

I didn't like Helenius' body language going into this fight ,he looked nervous and not confident.

We need Wilder against a better test to assess what he has left imo.

The guy who impressed me on that bill was Frank Sanchez,he can box and appears to have a bit more snap on his shots now.

- - Deyonce been shot ever since Blubber dented his noggin' wif eggweights.

Frankie said to be geared up,

[Rosco3387]

It's funny how people pick and chose their arguments - so they back up the end result you're looking for!

If you want Wilder to be "victorious" in a dream match like this, you will site his enormous advantages in height an reach - which, coupled with extraordinary punching power, would crush Rocky like a bug.

If, on the other hand, you're backing Marciano, those advantages become more or less irrelevant - to the point where Rocky's lack of size almost becomes an advantage (difficult to hit a smaller opponent fighting out of a crouch).

It's all fantasy, of course... so you can safely take your pick, without running the risk of being proven wrong!

Well... Not backing either guy frankly. But I do think that Wilder's reach advantage is offset by the fact that Marciano is used to fighting perpetually under those conditions.

Maybe I was misunderstood... My ulterior motive here is not to say Marciano would win, or lose, but to point out/deconstruct certain misperceptions by presenting this match up. I do think that Wilder has incredible power and a chance to win... I also do not think he could fight in the manner he is accustomed if it was not for a lack of decent pressure being applied, otherwise: why do we not see fighters fighting by staying far away and choosing when to engage in days gone by?

if you watch a fighter like Liston for example, even his most average opponents will TRY to pressure him at times... Wilder and Haye use the threat of a big punch to stay away ad choose when to engage, this particular approach would not work well for Wilder...Not saying he could not adjust.

[Rosco3387]

If you fight in a crouch you have to come out of it to punch effectively.

The reason I mentioned this "crouch" was purely because when Marciano was asked to commentate on his own fight... Well many probably expected a whole plethora of what would be mentioned! But as Habermas the historian once said "the author does not necessarily own his perspective" lol... Meaning that Marciano focused almost exclusively on needing to stay in the crouch, despite many developments happening.

You can perform some punches from the crouch, but you do need to come up, vis a vis change vertical positions, to really hit with power. Caleb Plant last Saturday right? First hook nobody cared about... it was the second that mattered.

[Willow The Wisp]

[QUOTE=QueensburyRules;n31611604]

- - Deyonce been shot ever since Blubber dented his noggin' wif eggweights.

Frankie said to be geared up,

[/QUOTE]

Lol, last week's theory. A 1st round blowout of a top 20 (maybe top 15) contender has righted that ship. When was the last time your horse in the race matched that feat? Two years.