How Good Was Frank Childs?

[Ivich]

Frank Childs The muscular Texan.He beat such men as;

Bob Armstrong x2
Klon***e x5
Joe Butler x2
George Lablanche x2
Henry Baker
Mexican Pete Everett
Fred Russell x3
Joe Walcott
George Byers
Jack Bonner

Drew with ;
Hank Griffin
Joe Kennedy
And was the Coloured Champion.
Any thoughts on him?

[Mysterian]

Childs the guy who housed JJ for a while or am I mixing him up with another?

-Marchegiano

[Willow The Wisp]

Good to see our best playing along nicely!
Frank Childs, known as "The Crafty Texan" pre-dates Jack Johnson by just over a decade. He was one of the best black heavyweights in America between 1888, the early years of the padded gloves, or "Modern" era, and 1902 when the next generation's "Denver" Ed Martin releived him of the "Colored" heavyweight title in Chicago. In the waning days of the 19th century, most Caucasians were little interested in chancing getting their ass beaten in public by a man possibly born into slavery or removed by only a generation, so the colored title held a great deal of, for lack of a better term; prestige, when Boxing was no. 2 in the United States and no. 1 outside of it, as the pros in sports go. Ivich lists some of the top men in the sport as some of Frank Childs' opponents, which essentially answers the rhetorical "how good was he" question.
Though his standing seems to place him lower than those reserved for Peter Jackson, Bob Armstrong, Hank Griffin and Martin, he was still one of the greats of the "Sundowners" pack, as I am to understand; with hundreds of them unrecorded entirely..

[Ivich]

Good to see our best playing along nicely!
Frank Childs, known as "The Crafty Texan" pre-dates Jack Johnson by just over a decade. He was one of the best black heavyweights in America between 1888, the early years of the padded gloves, or "Modern" era, and 1902 when the next generation's "Denver" Ed Martin releived him of the "Colored" heavyweight title in Chicago. In the waning days of the 19th century, most Caucasians were little interested in chancing getting their ass beaten in public by a man possibly born into slavery or removed by only a generation, so the colored title held a great deal of, for lack of a better term; prestige, when Boxing was no. 2 in the United States and no. 1 outside of it, as the pros in sports go. Ivich lists some of the top men in the sport as some of Frank Childs' opponents, which essentially answers the rhetorical "how good was he" question.
Though his standing seems to place him lower than those reserved for Peter Jackson, Bob Armstrong, Hank Griffin and Martin, he was still one of the greats of the "Sundowners" pack, as I am to understand; with hundreds of them unrecorded entirely..

I don't think Armstrong can be rated above him .

[Dr. Z]

Good to see our best playing along nicely!
Frank Childs, known as "The Crafty Texan" pre-dates Jack Johnson by just over a decade. He was one of the best black heavyweights in America between 1888, the early years of the padded gloves, or "Modern" era, and 1902 when the next generation's "Denver" Ed Martin releived him of the "Colored" heavyweight title in Chicago. In the waning days of the 19th century, most Caucasians were little interested in chancing getting their ass beaten in public by a man possibly born into slavery or removed by only a generation, so the colored title held a great deal of, for lack of a better term; prestige, when Boxing was no. 2 in the United States and no. 1 outside of it, as the pros in sports go. Ivich lists some of the top men in the sport as some of Frank Childs' opponents, which essentially answers the rhetorical "how good was he" question.
Though his standing seems to place him lower than those reserved for Peter Jackson, Bob Armstrong, Hank Griffin and Martin, he was still one of the greats of the "Sundowners" pack, as I am to understand; with hundreds of them unrecorded entirely..

He lost a reported fight to Jim Jeffries. He was pretty much washed up by 1901 The loss to Martin and Johnson happed after he was 35 and used up. A good, but not great fighter from the 1890's.

[historical boxing society]

I'll take you through my Frank Childs notes from his bouts..

1898- Childs-Byers 1- Byers was the better man of the two.
1899- Childs-Armstrong- Childs punished Armstrong with the win.
1899- Childs-Bonner reported as Draw. Childs sends Bonner to canvas in 2nd & 5th should of got the win. Bonner was a very good middleweight.
1900- Childs-Joe Butler- Childs just destroys Butler humiliating him knocking him out twice.
1901- Childs-Byers 3. Probably Childs best victory. Childs just punishes Byers sending him to the canvas 3x. Byers cries as he is announced loser. Up until this match they were quite even having logged a draw in between.
1902 Childs-Denver Ed Martin. An unfair contest as 5'9" martin just isn't equipped to fight heavyweights. Ed martin wins easy keeping his distance-no knockdowns
1902 Childs-walcott. This should be one of the ages at this point in history. Childs lets him hit him at will in first 2 rounds. Which Walcott was a shade better in newspaper articles. Round 3. Three quick punches in gut and Walcott quits claiming injury. Was he injured? Most likely. I found reports he entered ring with bandage on his left arm, round 3 he removed the bandage prior to round & then injured it. Walcott gives a speech to booing fans that he obtained injury in Garnder fight earlier in the year. They don't care...and boo him off stage.
This should of had a rematch as it certainly warranted it---
1902 Childs-Johnson. Again a one sided affair as Childs was a light heavy and had neither the power, the defense or the wheels to fight a heavyweight. In 11th round Childs is spitting blood and has one eye closed. Johnson fails to knock him down.
1902- Childs- Choynski- Joe did what Johnson couldn't and floored the incredibly tough Childs. Childs reported a bit fat and was clearly on his down swing at this point. Choynski downs Childs in round 2, Childs up immediately. Round 3 was epic furious action back and forth with Choyski nearly out at rounds end. 4th round on Childs is lacking stamina as Joe builds a lead. Last round has some great action back and forth.

Childs quits boxing at this point.

My assessment: Frank Childs is a bit difficult to assess as he wasn't fighting at his correct weight range very often. Should of fought some of the white Lightheavy's to get a better feel like Root & Gardner and Dan Creedon. Childs did face Creedon in 94 but it was much too early in his career for a man of that ability.

He was extremely durable, average defense, not a runner (like Byers), had some fair power.

A perfect Fantasy matchup would be Frank Childs vs George "OLD CHOCOLATE" Godfrey as i think they would be very evenly matched. Childs would of had some trouble with mobile Lightheavy's but certainly had the durability to go the distance with some greats as he wasn't floored very often and was utterly fearless.

A 2nd Walcott vs Childs match could of proved an epic Battle.

[kara]

I'll take you through my Frank Childs notes from his bouts..

1898- Childs-Byers 1- Byers was the better man of the two.
1899- Childs-Armstrong- Childs punished Armstrong with the win.
1899- Childs-Bonner reported as Draw. Childs sends Bonner to canvas in 2nd & 5th should of got the win. Bonner was a very good middleweight.
1900- Childs-Joe Butler- Childs just destroys Butler humiliating him knocking him out twice.
1901- Childs-Byers 3. Probably Childs best victory. Childs just punishes Byers sending him to the canvas 3x. Byers cries as he is announced loser. Up until this match they were quite even having logged a draw in between.
1902 Childs-Denver Ed Martin. An unfair contest as 5'9" martin just isn't equipped to fight heavyweights. Ed martin wins easy keeping his distance-no knockdowns
1902 Childs-walcott. This should be one of the ages at this point in history. Childs lets him hit him at will in first 2 rounds. Which Walcott was a shade better in newspaper articles. Round 3. Three quick punches in gut and Walcott quits claiming injury. Was he injured? Most likely. I found reports he entered ring with bandage on his left arm, round 3 he removed the bandage prior to round & then injured it. Walcott gives a speech to booing fans that he obtained injury in Garnder fight earlier in the year. They don't care...and boo him off stage.
This should of had a rematch as it certainly warranted it---
1902 Childs-Johnson. Again a one sided affair as Childs was a light heavy and had neither the power, the defense or the wheels to fight a heavyweight. In 11th round Childs is spitting blood and has one eye closed. Johnson fails to knock him down.
1902- Childs- Choynski- Joe did what Johnson couldn't and floored the incredibly tough Childs. Childs reported a bit fat and was clearly on his down swing at this point. Choynski downs Childs in round 2, Childs up immediately. Round 3 was epic furious action back and forth with Choyski nearly out at rounds end. 4th round on Childs is lacking stamina as Joe builds a lead. Last round has some great action back and forth.

Childs quits boxing at this point.

My assessment: Frank Childs is a bit difficult to assess as he wasn't fighting at his correct weight range very often. Should of fought some of the white Lightheavy's to get a better feel like Root & Gardner and Dan Creedon. Childs did face Creedon in 94 but it was much too early in his career for a man of that ability.

He was extremely durable, average defense, not a runner (like Byers), had some fair power.

A perfect Fantasy matchup would be Frank Childs vs George "OLD CHOCOLATE" Godfrey as i think they would be very evenly matched. Childs would of had some trouble with mobile Lightheavy's but certainly had the durability to go the distance with some greats as he wasn't floored very often and was utterly fearless.

A 2nd Walcott vs Childs match could of proved an epic Battle.

This man knows his facts on Childs.

[Ivich]

He lost a reported fight to Jim Jeffries. He was pretty much washed up by 1901 The loss to Martin and Johnson happed after he was 35 and used up. A good, but not great fighter from the 1890's.

There is zero proof this fight ever happened.No historian has found any evidence that it did despite exhaustive research by such as
Pollack, Fleischer,Smith.

[Dr. Z]

There is zero proof this fight ever happened.No historian has found any evidence that it did despite exhaustive research by such as
Pollack, Fleischer,Smith.

Fights are discovered all the time. The fact the newspapers reported this fight leads me to believe it happened.

[Ivich]

Fights are discovered all the time. The fact the newspapers reported this fight leads me to believe it happened.

There have been at least 5 biographies of Jeffries plus 2 ghosted auto biographies NONE say this fight happened.
Stop trying to pad Jeffries record against black fighters.. CBZ says the fight was reported but not confirmed it says the same about possible fights with Kid Cotton and Denver Ed Martin.In neither Jeffries,,Childs,Cotton, or Martin's resume's are these fights mentioned .ie They did NOT happen.
We know Martin challenged Jeffries,we know he had the backing of a promoter who offered Jeffries a $15,000 guarantee we know Jeffries turned it down,just as he turned down challenges from McVey and Johnson.Just stop with the BS!