If Lastarza Had Won The First Marciano Fight?

[Ivich]

Fleischer really was obnoxious, for instance the way he had Clay/Liston stopped.

Valdes won his next 11 fights and among those he beat were Agramonte,Charles,Sys,Jackson, Neuhaus, that's why he was rated. Fleischer did not stop the Ali v Liston fight The timekeeper could not make himself heard above the noise and had no microphone he had counted to18 and began counting again,all Fleischer did was draw the referees attention to the time keeper Walcott did not even know where he was situated.

[Ivich]

Sorry about the name goof - I was referring to the William Nack article in SI. He states that Marciano had a gangster holding his money with the promise of giving it to his wife upon demise.

I know the story about the drain pipes and the paranoia.

Maybe both are true, maybe neither.

Again, I don't believe 'ducts' are that simple.

What you believe is up to you.
Valdes had won 11 straight fights, among his victims were Charles Agramonte.Sys,Neuhaus,Jackson nobody deserved a title shot more than him more than him, certainly not Charles who had lost 2 of his last 4 fights and whom Valdes had beaten.

[QueensburyRules]

What you believe is up to you.
Valdes had won 11 straight fights, among his victims were Charles Agramonte.Sys,Neuhaus,Jackson nobody deserved a title shot more than him more than him, certainly not Charles who had lost 2 of his last 4 fights and whom Valdes had beaten.

- - U whiting out all the guys beating and Knocking Out Valdez, how convenient.

[Willow The Wisp]

I think it would dramatically have enhanced his historical standing.

Totally true!
Your refrain is that Marciano should have defended against Valdez, and nobody can argue.
Valdez would be a defense against a quality opponent the size of the 1960s - 70s wave of heavyweights to come, which would IMO have been a real Feather in Marciano's cap, and had he won, would offer proof that he cope with a world class 6'3" 210-215 (Ali sized) contender.
Bob Baker, also long ranked, who beat Valdez the two times they met, should've received his shot too.
The rock solid 6'2" 218 pound Baker would likewise have offered perspective about life in the ring with a very good, larger fighter.
From 09/52 through 09/55, Rocky's reign, as they were all fishing opponents from the same pond, Marciano went 7-0-0 keeping the title, while Valdez went 11-6 and Baker 17-4, interesting as far as what raw numbers can provide.

[The Old LefHook]

Valdes won his next 11 fights and among those he beat were Agramonte,Charles,Sys,Jackson, Neuhaus, that's why he was rated. Fleischer did not stop the Ali v Liston fight The timekeeper could not make himself heard above the noise and had no microphone he had counted to18 and began counting again,all Fleischer did was draw the referees attention to the time keeper Walcott did not even know where he was situated.

Other people stayed in their seat where Fleischer should have been.

[Anthony342]

Totally true!
Your refrain is that Marciano should have defended against Valdez, and nobody can argue.
Valdez would be a defense against a quality opponent the size of the 1960s - 70s wave of heavyweights to come, which would IMO have been a real Feather in Marciano's cap, and had he won, would offer proof that he cope with a world class 6'3" 210-215 (Ali sized) contender.
Bob Baker, also long ranked, who beat Valdez the two times they met, should've received his shot too.
The rock solid 6'2" 218 pound Baker would likewise have offered perspective about life in the ring with a very good, larger fighter.
From 09/52 through 09/55, Rocky's reign, as they were all fishing opponents from the same pond, Marciano went 7-0-0 keeping the title, while Valdez went 11-6 and Baker 17-4, interesting as far as what raw numbers can provide.

So we got Bob Baker and Nino Valdez. Damn dude, Marciano's management sucks for ducking these 2 guys then. Rocky should have pushed to fight these 2 guys to add to his legacy, like he did for the LaStarza rematch. Can't believe I never heard these guys mentioned in any Marciano bios I've seen. Since I'm a big Marciano fan, thanks for the heads up, guys.

[Ivich]

Other people stayed in their seat where Fleischer should have been.

I repeat, Fleischer did not stop the fight, all he did was draw the incompetent referees attention to the fact that the timekeeper had counted Liston out.

[Ivich]

- - U whiting out all the guys beating and Knocking Out Valdez, how convenient.

Go away you ****** trolling ****!

[QueensburyRules]

What you believe is up to you.
Valdes had won 11 straight fights, among his victims were Charles Agramonte.Sys,Neuhaus,Jackson nobody deserved a title shot more than him more than him, certainly not Charles who had lost 2 of his last 4 fights and whom Valdes had beaten.

- - Valdes had a miserable transition from 52-53, so he wasn't even a popular exchamp as Ez was whom the people wanted Rocky to fight.

And certainly Moore who had beat him during that transition and later beat him in the unofficial eliminator for Rocky's last fight. Keep on moaning for Valdes though. It suits U style!

[Willie Pep 229]

Walcott was not an incompetent referee - no referee could have handled Ali/Clay that night. Walcott did exactly what he had to do.

Luston deserved a count, a count from the referee - it is very likely Liston couldn't hear the time keeper's count - he had a right to hear and see a referee counting over him.

Justice does not lie in a rigid adherence to the rules - that fight should have continued and that very ****** self promoting old man Nat Fleischer should have minded his own god damn business, i.e. making up stories to sell magazines.

If any rule should have been followed it should have been the DQ of Clay.

But that shouldn't have happened either. The Fight should have continued.