Im very confused about Ezzard Charles resume

[Ivich]

Age is not an indicator of intelligence or reasonable thought. ***** is 79.

I'd say that 63 years of following a sport indicates you are not a casual.I think I'm of average intelligence and claim no special mental abilities. As to ***** I think the American public would have voted for anyone rather than what they had at that time and, if I had been an American I would have done the same!

[Bundana]

On heart: Maybe livelihood vs opportunity?

The old timers we speak of, lived in a more unforgiving world - if they failed there was no safety net to fall into.

Today's fighters have been raised in a world where the individual is considered more sacred.

To them prize fighting is an opportunity and if they fail they have options. SEE Billy Joe Sanders.

This will sound weird but . . .

Old timers accepted the beatings because they had less self worth. They took the punishment because they viewed it as their lot in life. (SEE Jake LaMotta.)

Today's fighters see thenselves as athletes and when injured they have, taught since childhood, learned to protect yourself, which means you stop (often incorrectly called: quitting).

I don't think it character I think it's cultural and a different self image. Today fighters have higher self esteem.

P.S. Ever notice how the old timers always seemed more humble than today's guys?

Then again maybe not.

I agree with everything you say here - especially about the old-timers (most of them, anyway) being a product of much harder times.

However, when it comes to what went on inside the ring, I think there's good reason to believe, that many boxer back then tried to get through the fights with as little effort as possible! After all, they could have their next fight scheduled as early as the next week, or even the next day... so it was probably in everybody's best interest, to go easy on each other.

But sometimes this plan backfired, when it became too obvious that the boxers took part in a sham fight - in which case the referee would throw them both out, for not making a sufficient effort. Hundreds and hundreds of fighters suffered this indignity back in the 20s... but we rarely hear about them, so you have to dig deep in the old records, to get a feel of what really was going on... namely that many of them were not in the game for honour and glory, but simply to earn a little extra money during difficult times, in order to put food on the table and provide for their families. And for that, the old-timers deserve all the credit in the world!

[GhostofDempsey]

I'd say that 63 years of following a sport indicates you are not a casual.I think I'm of average intelligence and claim no special mental abilities. As to ***** I think the American public would have voted for anyone rather than what they had at that time and, if I had been an American I would have done the same!

You can do anything for 63 years and still be doing it wrong. Look at you for example. 63 years a fan and still spouting myths and misinformation. You're as ignorant as the ***** voters who thought a vote against ***** was going to be the best thing for the country. Look at us now. If they wanted to vote against ***** there were far better candidates to choose from, they chose the absolute worst!

[QueensburyRules]

You believe the ko was genuine I believe it was faked and Im not alone in that opinion.Name another fighter of any ability Carnera scored a one punch ko over? He couldnt even drop Loughran a man he had 86 lbs on! A man Sharkey, no big puncher ko'd! It was you who mentioned Schaaf nobody else ,when I pointed out Schaaf went down from a jab and the audience booed fake not realising he was a fatal accident waiting to happen. You come back with Blah blah blah because you've no answer to the contemporary reports and reactions of the crowd that actually were there. Here is a report
" suffers an inter-cranial hemorrhage and his left side becomes paralyzed. He underwent an operation to remove a blood clot from his brain and relieve pressure. He died on the 14th at the Polyclinic Hospital.

Governor Lehman ordered an immediate investigation, and there were threats of once again repealing prize-fighting in New York State, as well as threats to disbar Carnera due to his immense size. General John J. Phelan and William Muldoon announced that the "super-dreadnaught" class for oversized heavyweights, first organized in 1931, would be re-established and that Carnera could fight opponents only from this class.

Meanwhile, there remained some discrepancy over the exact cause of death: some medical experts saying it was caused by injuries received during this bout; others that Shaaf already had some tumor, cyst, lesion or old injury of the brain which contributed to his death. In fact, Schaaf had suffered a bout of influenza leading up to the fight and was in a weakened state."


Here is your post.
"Carnera also KOed Sharkey as well as credited for killing a fighter that raised the hue and cry for a Dreadnaught."
I repeat Carnera was no big puncher. Here is a report of his first Stribling fight

"Both fighters down in the third. Carnera down from low blow in 4th. This bout was probably fixed."

- - All more blah, blah proves U runs ain't constipated.

Sharkey was KOed dead away. Primo record 88-14, 71 KO. Name one better from his era with more KOs.

Boxing been fixed or attempted fixed since bareknuck inception just like today with primordial misanthropic fans just like today

[QueensburyRules]

A good post, . I note in the course of the thread some anger toned dialog, and remarkably between good posters who seem to enjoy the conflict. No judgment here; do as you please. I don't debate very much. I just don't care allot about who drinks at my trough. I like a good yarn though. I met Jack Sharkey in 1971, at a restaurant called "Fayes" in North Conway, NH while on vacation. Back then you get a large baked, stuffed lobster with all the sides for $4.99 there. Though he was known to be as crusty and inpatient with fans and the media as his pal Ted Williams, I found him to be gracious, sharp and smiling. I was obviously too young to have remembered his career and he seemed amused, even joyful that I could discuss his drubbings of Harry Wills, Max Schmeling, George Godfrey, Tommy Loughran, Jack Renault and local rival in Boston Jimmy Maloney. When I mentioned, in a respectful way, the doubts cast on his 1933 rematch with Carnera, all the lighthearted amusement drained out of his expression. He grabbed my arm (hard) and looked me right in the face and said "Now you listen. I never threw a fight in my life and I sure as hell didn't throw that one. You find a film of that fight and you play it over and again on the peojector and you see for yourself!". Over the years I did just that and plenty, and I believe the guy who risked his life 53 times against trained killers in the ring to forge a reputation that he could be proud of. To me, having been around the block, everything else is bull.

- - Heh, heh, growing up on the Gulf of Mexico, shrimp and crab and all manner of seafood to be had, fresh catch of the day. We caught our own crabs, Big Blue mean things who could tear a kid's finger off.

Later on seafood went to the air, and now with the ol' guy older and well endowed, went to his country club where he ordered Lobster for everyone. We never served crab like that, so I asked him if it had been gutted that blew his top...good times.

Yeah, emboldened above/\

[Willow The Wisp]

Excellent post, we must make our own choices and I respect yours. Sharkey said he saw a vision of Schaaf just before Carnera knocked him out do you believe that? I've watched the knockout many many times in debates, it looks to me like Carnera lands on Sharkey with his forearm but the film, even in slo mo is inconclusive. Sharkey's reaction to the uppercut looks theatrical to me and we do know he interrupted his training to drive home to check on the health of his children at one point.We also know that several mobsters were at his training camp ,members of the Purple Gang.Trying to prove a fight is fake is almost impossible we both know that, but given Carnera's reputation and that of the mobsters that controlled him my gut instinct leads me to believe the fight was a fix. I may be right, or you may be right.we will never be certain either way. Sharkey himself said his own Wife had her doubts as have I.We do know that in their earlier fight Sharkey had handled Carnera with ease,even dropping him for a count. Carnera was tutored by Abe Attell a very close friend of Primo's behind the scenes real manager Owney Madden Public Enemy Number One who was then residing in the Pen Attell's rep as a boxer was second to none ,his rep for honesty was about the lowest of the low.along with Arnold Rothstein he had fixed the Worlds Series.
Perhaps I've been a bit too aggressive in some of my responses,.but having encountered Starship Trooper on I think my first visit here I've had my hands up ever since. I like to treat others as they do me and react in kind. I hope you and I can get along.

Of course!!! We all should. Walk into any bar or pub where they're speaking English. If you're in North America they can all offer up some knowledge on Football, Baseball, Basketball. If you're in the old empire they can offer up something on Soccer (Football), Rugby or Cricket. If in either place and you find yourself sipping port or sherry and watching the ticker at the club, it's tennis and golf. But Boxing?...... Sure everyone everywhere knows a little. In any 50 year time block dating back 300 years the most famous athlete was a boxer, more or less. But what they know will bore us Boxing folk in 3 minutes or less. We should stil together, for Pete's sake. That is achieved through two useful implements. 1. Mutual respect. 2. Cutting slack.
Ah, but...we are all fans of the fight.