Round Robin All Time Lightweight Tourney

[QueensburyRules]

AUGMENTED UPDATE:

1 Gans
2 B. Leonard
3 Duran
4 Pacquiao
5 Beau Jack?
6 Joe Brown?
7 Ike Williams
8 Floyd Mayweather
9 Carlos Ortiz
10 Hammern Hank
11 Battling Nelson
12 Hector Camacho
13 Whitaker
14 Canzoneri

- - Manny wif only a single LW fight used that platform to jump up to welter to Save Oscar Big $$$ promotion after l'l floydy candy melted.

[Willie Pep 229]

Here is a new augmented list, lads. I took DeeMoney's guidelines seriously. So far that gives us twelve combatants who all seem to belong primarily in the division, prime-wise at least, and ideally. Does anyone object to #6 & 5? Perhaps we need more names. Or have we got the essence?

Normally, in mythical matchups the culture defaults to the oldest fighter involved. But since this is a tourney, in order to be more fair to everyone, we default to the dirty thirties. Refereeing customs, judging, equipment shall all be consistent with the 1930's after the color line was broken.

1 Gans
2 B. Leonard
3 Duran
4 Pacquiao
5 Beau Jack?
6 Joe Brown?
7 Ike Williams
8 Floyd Mayweather
9 Carlos Ortiz
10 Hammern Hank
11 Battling Nelson
12 Hector Camacho

If you can come up with four more worthy opponents you can create a bracket of 16. Then we can argue over the seeding. I think that would be fun.

Since we are considering Nelson as a LW can we then include Paddy McFarland?

If looking to fill out the bracket to 16 maybe Sammy Angott, Bob Montgomery, and/or Jimmy Carter.

Regarding Jack and Joe Brown I believe they should stay on the list but be given low seeds.

Floyd doesn't belong on this list. His only big name fights at LW is Castillo. His other two defenses were against ham and eggers.

He should be saved for a WW tournament. Or if you want his early career, then Super Featherweight.

Also I disagree with Queen, SRR should be saved for either a WW or a MW tournament.

[The Old LefHook]

It's just a suggestion for a hypothetical tournament that isn't ever happening!

Here's another one: Shane Mosley.

I consider lightweight Mosley a water bully. Besides, IMO he simply was not good enough for this list.

And by the way, the tournament is going to happen. I cannot launch the first round until I am more familiar with a few of the fighters. In the first round Canzoneri will face each opponent on the list, and each forum participant will give their winner of each match. This will be done for all fighters in turn in the order I specify, to keep it orderly.

[The Old LefHook]

If you can come up with four more worthy opponents you can create a bracket of 16. Then we can argue over the seeding. I think that would be fun.

Since we are considering Nelson as a LW can we then include Paddy McFarland?

If looking to fill out the bracket to 16 maybe Sammy Angott, Bob Montgomery, and/or Jimmy Carter.

Regarding Jack and Joe Brown I believe they should stay on the list but be given low seeds.

Floyd doesn't belong on this list. His only big name fights at LW is Castillo. His other two defenses were against ham and eggers.

He should be saved for a WW tournament. Or if you want his early career, then Super Featherweight.

Also I disagree with Queen, SRR should be saved for either a WW or a MW tournament.

A bracket of 16 is perfect because it divides in half all the way down to 1. We need two more fighters in that case. You have proposed two, but I do not know enough about them to approve or not. You seem to imply that Nelson could rightfully be elsewhere. I approved him because a poster said he was considered an ATG lightweight.

I need more arguments for or against any last two contestants to make 16, before we can properly begin.

As for Floyd, I am going to allow him. He was close to exact prime at lightweight, and moved on for money. I can already tell you he will not finish in last place.

Any more suggestions for the last two contestants?

[The Old LefHook]

As for Robinson, he might not finish last out of this group either, but we just do not know. He was wealthy in amateur fights (89 or so).

There is no rule that says a man cannot participate in ATG tourneys at multiple weights. If Robinson were to win this tournament, we would certainly have to make him the junior welterweight AT champion too. We already pretty well know he was the greatest welterweight. I believe he would also qualify as the greatest junior middleweight ever, as well. Only at middleweight does his final legacy really come into question, because he was getting slightly past it by then, and had been more like a full-fledged junior middleweight than a large middleweight a la Monzon anyway. He missed weight only about once (against maybe Fusari?), but we all know his training habits were not always the best. He might place in a super middleweight AT tourney, but is not likely to win it. I believe Robinson would not even place in a top 10 light heavy AT tourney. Even someone like Yaqui Injun Lopez would beat the Old Nick out of Robby.

[Willie Pep 229]

A bracket of 16 is perfect because it divides in half all the way down to 1. We need two more fighters in that case. You have proposed two, but I do not know enough about them to approve or not. You seem to imply that Nelson could rightfully be elsewhere. I approved him because a poster said he was considered an ATG lightweight.

I need more arguments for or against any last two contestants to make 16, before we can properly begin.

As for Floyd, I am going to allow him. He was close to exact prime at lightweight, and moved on for money. I can already tell you he will not finish in last place.

Any more suggestions for the last two contestants?

The only one I would wish to champion would be Paddy McFarland.

[The Old LefHook]

Here is the final tourney list, lads.

Your first task: match Canzoneri with each fighter on the list and publish your results. No draws allowed, find a winner, no matter how thin the margin, for statistical purposes. All contestants come into each match fresh and rested and prime, no matter how tough their last match was. You do not need to give any rationalizations or justifications, if you don't feel like it, just publish your speculative results.


1 Gans
2 B. Leonard
3 Duran
4 Pacquiao
5 Beau Jack
6 Joe Brown
7 Ike Williams
8 Floyd Mayweather
9 Carlos Ortiz
10 Hammern Hank
11 Battling Nelson
12 Hector Camacho
13 Whitaker
14 Freddie Welsh
15 Ken Buchanan
16 Canzoneri

[The Old LefHook]

Allow me to think some more. We may have to go about the elimination process differently.

[Willie Pep 229]

Maybe it would have helped if I had written his name correctly- Packey McFarland

70-0-0 with 50K and believed by many to have been ducked by Nelson.

Never got a title shot then, and now again not being given at least a 'shot.'

Boo !

Are there no other McFarland supporters out there? Has to have a better LW resume than one of the annointed 16 listed above.

Boo !

SEE, If I had a chair to throw, it would be an appropriate time.

P.S. By ducking McFarland, are you trying to fix this tournament for Nelson?

You're on noticed, Nelson wins, I will find a chair.

[QueensburyRules]

Maybe it would have helped if I had written his name correctly- Packey McFarland

70-0-0 with 50K and believed by many to have been ducked by Nelson.

Never got a title shot then, and now again not being given at least a 'shot.'

Boo !

Are there no other McFarland supporters out there? Has to have a better LW resume than one of the annointed 16 listed above.

Boo !

SEE, If I had a chair to throw, it would be an appropriate time.

P.S. By ducking McFarland, are you trying to fix this tournament for Nelson?

You're on noticed, Nelson wins, I will find a chair.

- - Go wif Packy since he actually fought LW unlike many pretenders.