Who Can Handle Vitali in the Historical Pantheon?

[Bad Boy Dazza]

I would say it was more a case of Lewis, at 38 and a millionare, couldn't be arsed to put that kind of effort in anymore. Lewis was never passionate about the fight game and really could care less legacy wise if he left any loose ends hanging. He was never the type to fight on because he just couldn't let go like so many others have been. I also doubt that Lennox thought he had anything left to prove. While serious fight fans may argue differently Lennox rarely if ever let those types of arguments enter into his considerations.

Poet

LAME excuse laden answer. Lewis cared a lot about his legacy.

[res]

LAME excuse laden answer. Lewis cared a lot about his legacy.

I think the guy's point was his general legacy was already taken care of.

[StarshipTrooper]

Actually I agree with him. You're full of it.

And you are the alt of which KlitLicker?

Poet

[RightCross94]

You should try watching some of his fights from his prime until the fights with Golota before commenting on his career and his condition.

He was one of those unfortunate fighters that deteriorate very quickly well before the usual age, much like Vargas, Morales etc.

If you compare his first fight with Holyfield to any of his fights with Golota there is quite an amazing difference in, not only his physical conditioning and shape, but his overall skills, reflexes, speed, stamina, footwork....etc etc.

He was a very different fighter at that young age than when he fought Holyfield. Sad but true.

lol this is like when wlad owns argued that bowe was in his prime when golota fought him, i even showed him a video of bowe in his prime and then bowe vs golota and he refused to admit there was a difference between them

the point he was arguing was: golota whooped "prime" bowe, so therefore both klits KTFO bowe

[LondonRingRules]

You should try watching some of his fights from his prime until the fights with Golota before commenting on his career and his condition.

He was one of those unfortunate fighters that deteriorate very quickly well before the usual age, much like Vargas, Morales etc.

If you compare his first fight with Holyfield to any of his fights with Golota there is quite an amazing difference in, not only his physical conditioning and shape, but his overall skills, reflexes, speed, stamina, footwork....etc etc.

He was a very different fighter at that young age than when he fought Holyfield. Sad but true.

** I've watched enough Bowe to understand he was a mentally limited fighter managed by a thug quite fortunate to come along as the overrated Holy was weakening.

I can give him credit for beating a still tough Holy and the undefeated Hide which elevates him above another fighter with similar physical gifts, Cooney, but otherwise his career at the top is very similar to Cooney, beating past prime contenders and usual journeymen coming up.

As Ali found against Cleveland Williams, it's easy to look like a million bucks when you're in the ring with a set up.

Bowe would have scant chance against Vitali. He'd have a puncher's chance against Wlad, but see what a clod Bowe resembled against the very limited JL Gonzales who had even less development than Bowe coming up the ladder and proved to no better than journey class.

So what if Bowe is diminished by the point of Golota. There was nothing wrong with him physically other than he didn't want to train. Golota is the better natural talent and just as diminished by mental impairments as Bowe, thus the two consecutive DQs.

It's telling how quickly the belts are lost by Bowe. All he had to do was stay in shape for 3 yrs and he could've racked up 6 average defenses and retired with more credibility instead of throwing his belt and career in the bin.

[joseph5620]

[QUOTE=LondonRingRules;4952043]** OK, you made some good valid points about Vitali's style that few pick up on, yet fall short with the above.

Keep in mind that both the brothers were having as much trouble as Chris Byrd in making fights. Lewis wouldn't even mention them. They were the top 3challengers to Lewis at the close of the 90s opening up the new millennium. Maybe Wlad and Byrd not the top WBC rated challengers, but that's a different kettle of fish. I'm talking consensus boxrec/ring/and ********* type ratings.

Vitali was out 8 months as the WBC #1 contender waiting on Lewis to get off his pot. Lewis had an optional defense lined up against Kirk Johnson, but what he really wanted was the lucrative Tyson rematch which was going to be promoted by Tyson being on the undercard against Boswell. Tyson pulls out late, Vitali agrees to be his replacement hoping to promote his opportunity, then Johnson is hurt and pulls out, and with only a couple of weeks before the fight, Vitali agrees to what he feels is his only shot against Lewis who seems primed to retire without fighting him.

It's a fact for all you Jacks that Lewis had a full 2 month training camp and some additional training for a week or two a month before his official training camp. Yeah, he comes in at a career high, but had been gaining weight as all heavies do on a steady basis, and his six fights before, he'd averaged around 249-250 lbs, so 7 extra lbs is nothing for a man that size. That's about what my weight fluctuates as on a daily or weekly basis as a smaller man.

Yes, Lewis was entering that declining age, yet had pitched his two best masterclasses ever against Rahman in the rematch and Tyson with tons of plaudits. If anything, Vitali was the one disadvantaged with short notice on training and having to keep his schedule open in case the rumoured bout became reality. Sure, Lewis chose to be inactive for a year, and Vitali was forced out 8 months to hold on the the hints being dropped that Lewis might fight him soon.



That is false. Vitali was training for a fight with Cedric Bosell just as Lewis was training for Kirk Johnson. He was no more "short noticed" than Lewis was.

[joseph5620]

[QUOTE=LondonRingRules;4952353]Joe Louis: Joe a history of beating huge men in Carnera, Buddy Baer who is Vitali sized, and Simon. Knocked em all out. Primo gives him a fine battle. Simon big, slow and clumsy, and Buddy gave away his height and reach by going inside like he was 5-10 instead of 6-6. Joe one of the few with a more than fair chance.

Muhammad Ali: Ali another one with a fair chance. No history of big men save Terrell and Foreman, a couple sizes below Vitali. Still, with Ali talent and movement, I don't give the comeback Ali much chance, the prime Ali is in the game.

The comeback Ali beat Foreman and Frazier but would have little chance against Vitali? lol interesting to say the least. I'll also ask you, who did Vitlali ever beat as good as Liston, Frazier, Foreman or even Norton? I ask because you seem to like downgrading and rewriting Ali's career(Mildenberg had Ali in trouble?) as I've seen you do many times before. Which is peculiar since you seem to be so impressed with Vitali's career when his biggest wins are over Corey Sanders and Gomez. And you can say whatever you want about the Lewis fight but Vitali lost to the worst version of Lennox Lewis who came in at 256 pounds. You give Vitali credit for that fight as of he won it.

[joseph5620]

[QUOTE=LondonRingRules;5380754]** I here to tell you, I've not only lived through the Larry era, but studied him in retrospect more fully, and the guy was padding out his career, even in his comeback. There was no chance whatsoever he had to win a title back though I got a chuckle at how much trouble he gave the overrated Holy.

Here is the scoring for Cooney at the stoppage. 113-111 | 113-111 | 115-109 Keep in mind that Cooney was deducted at least 3 points for low blows. Without the penalties, Cooney was officially winning by at least 114-113, 114-113, 112-115. Save for the flash KD, Holmes barely touched Cooney until rd 12, and not that much.

You sure like rewriting history. Holmes had Cooney in serious trouble in round five and punished him with his jab and counter rights. Cooney's eye was a bloody mess at the end of the fight but Holmes "barely touched him" until round 12? Either you're blind or you see what you want to see. I believe the latter. And for you to say Cooney "outboxed Holmes" is disgracefully inaccurate. And that knockdown in round two was no "flash knockdown". it was a perfectly timed right hand on Cooney's chin and Cooney was hurt by it. You have an agenda here I see.

[joseph5620]

[QUOTE=LondonRingRules;5399732]** I've watched enough Bowe to understand he was a mentally limited fighter managed by a thug quite fortunate to come along as the overrated Holy was weakening.

I can give him credit for beating a still tough Holy and the undefeated Hide which elevates him above another fighter with similar physical gifts, Cooney, but otherwise his career at the top is very similar to Cooney, beating past prime contenders and usual journeymen coming up.

Bowe and Cooney were nowhere near alike in terms of skills or their career. What planet did you watch fighters on? Bowe was a big man who could fight inside. He also had power in both hands. Cooney was largely a one handed fighter who never beat a a legit top 10 contender in his entire career. He also had a shaky chin while Bowe had an excellent chin. No similarities whatsover. I think Bowe is overrated in some respects but he was a better fighter than Cooney and had a much better career. That's not even arguable to objective people who know boxing.

[portuge puncher]

foreman would knock the **** out of em'

ali would find a way to outbox em'

tyson would knock the **** out of em'