Best boxer in each decade

[wpink1]

60s
ali
70s
ali/duran
80s
to pick leonard as the fighter of the 80s when he wasnt active for all of it is a travesty, in the 90s he fought the draw that he lost in 89 against Hearns, the disputable victory over Hearns and wasnt active between 84 and 87.

My pick is Hagler or Duran
Hagler dominated the middleweight division for 7 years and defended his title 12 times
or Duran who beat Leonard, cuevas and Davey Moore. also his defeat of Barkley goes down as 1 of the greater victories in boxing

90s
Roy Jones jr
00s
Mayweather/Pacquiao

The reason why almost every intelligent boxing expert ad most respected boxing sources have given Ray almost every single boxer of the 80's award, including Ring ****zine boxer of the decade, etc.. is because he fought in the biggest fights of the decade and won almost all of them, and the one he lost he immediately avenged. Chavez, and Tyson both had no where near the great wins that Leonard had. Hagler...hell, his bes wins were vs welters who moved up to him, and Leonard came out of retirement for the most part of 5 years and beat him.

Name one other fighter who has beaten the likes of a Duran, Hagler and Hearns. Tyson beat bums, Chavez ws a very good fighter but beat no one the likes of a duran, hearns or hagler....and yes he lost to Whitacker. The knocks on Ray due to inactivity and his lost of skill when he came back from retirement are all valid. However, you cant name another fighter who carried the decade or at least part of it like leonad did and simultaneously beat greats, that is 3 all time top 30 pound per pound greats, while they where at or close to their peak!

[LondonRingRules]

.and yes he lost to Whitacker.

** My dear Mr. Pink, it is good to see you making a comeback of sorts.

Naturally the topic is your special project, Leonard, which perhaps explains your failure to understand the parameters of the topic, best fighter of the 80s.

Now, you can hypotheticalize and otherwise project your reasons why Ray is greater than X,Y, and Z, but the records show something quite a bit different.

In the 80s Ray has a fine record of 10-1-1, 9-1-1 in title fights.

JCSr didn't lose to Pea, but even if we allow your opinion, that fight didn't happen until '93. Sr was 68-0, 16-0 in title fights in 3 different divisions for the 80s, including a HOFer Rosario, and future HOFer Ramairez and twice over one of your precious Mayweathers. No controversies since the Taylor fight was his first controversy the next year in '90.

Mike Tyson was 37-0 and completely shattered the status quo, unifying the division, the first heavy to win 4 titles, 10-0 in title fights including KOs over 2 HOFers never KOed before or since. Widely considered the best ever at that point of the end of the 80s. Tyson was front and center on every front page of every major media publication in the world save maybe The American Bride, Scientific American, and Hot Rod ****zine.


You seem to have quite a bit more on the ball than the typical junior high fanboys that take up this site, so it pains me greatly that you have not advanced your cause significantly during your time here.

My suggestion: Branch out. Many OTHER great fighters await your discovery. Playing one or two notes is a start, but does not an orchestra make.

Here's an interesting topic right down your alley:

Why o why can't the US punch it's way out of it's jock straps in the Olympics anymore? US and India tied with one bronze apeice. Will the US boxing team out source it's boxing program to India in London 2012? Might be the only way for the US to win any medals, but perhaps you can take on a project and give us your projections.

Cheerio now................

[wpink1]

london..my friend. your generally listed on most peoples ignore list for total ignorance on here, but I will help educate you.

First off, it said greatest fighter of the 80's, not most wins or most divisions (3 for chavez or 4-5 for leonard)... The thing you need to understand is why it is not just me that annoints Leonard as the outstanding fighter of the 80's but almost every respected boxing expert, source everything gave Leonard this award. Check your resources...

You want to debate...Chavez beat who Great! He beat a lot fighters the level of Benetiz or less, but none the level of a Hearns, hagler or Duran.

Tyson and Hagler are clearly the most dominant fighters of the 80's, but that is not what this is, it is best fighter which generally includes quality of opposition beaten. Hmmmm Lets see Michael spinks at Heavyweight, Old Laryy holms, Trevor Berbick..The Truth williams..the list goes on and on...Who great did Tyson beat n the 80's. Also I never recall Tyson WIDLY being considered the best ever, not when you have Robinson, Greb, Ali, Armstrong around and Tyson is beating up on Razor Ruddocks of the world.....

Now Hagler was a very very serious thought, but hmmm Didnt leonard come out of retirement and move up 2 weight classes and beat him when he was only 32, and are not his other 2 best wins vs opponents Leonard had already beaten.

Furthermore, I discuss many fighters, do a search. Hell we have even debated the heavyweights. I genrally discuss Mayweather Dlh, Roy Jones..etc... So once again your speak out on stuff your clueless about.

Since I did not follow the olympic boxing this year, I will not argue with yu on that, and I believe that is a value you should learn, to not speak about things you dont know about

Before I forget, I am not sure wat the date was for the SweatPea Chavez fight, but any fight fan that saw that and is not all up in Chavez ass knows he lost that fight EASILY...There was no way it was a draw...

[LondonRingRules]

london..my friend. your generally listed on most peoples ignore list for total ignorance on here, but I will help educate you.

First off, it said greatest fighter of the 80's, not most wins or most divisions (3 for chavez or 4-5 for leonard)... The thing you need to understand is why it is not just me that annoints Leonard as the outstanding fighter of the 80's but almost every respected boxing expert, source everything gave Leonard this award. Check your resources...

** My dearest Mr. Pink, you would need to have an education in order to educate others.

Already corrected one of the few facts that you provided, so let me correct you on another. The only posters who put me on ignore were the late, great, much lamented Boozo and another poster with admitted mental disorder who I need not name, both of whom still responded to what few posts I provide here, proving that they couldn't ignore me any more than a moth ignores a flame. It was just some posturing, like grabbing the crotch and strutting around. Means nothing in the ring.

As far as every "respected boxing expert" goes, let them come here and justify their so-called expertise. The only experts I know of are the few gamblers with inside info and the expertise to size up fighters and styles to earn their livings wagering on fights, and they like to remain anonymous.

If you want to let "experts" like Teddy Atlas and Max Kellerman fill up that vast vacuum behind your blinkered eyes, be my guest.

Me, I provided a valid, easily referenced statistical sampling of the top 3 fighters usually mentioned as being in the running for the mythical honor. If you wish to pick the fighter with the lesser stats as the best, that's perfectly OK with me.

Just the same as if some kid named YahooBlue or BombayeToday comes on here and insists that Livingstone Bramble or Macho Camacho is the fighter of the 80s, without really knowing why.........cool.........

[wpink1]

Before we go down the road of personal attacks lets keep it to boxing. However, to answer you question about education. I have 3 tupes..Street ed growing up in east st louis...I really dont think you would want to visit where I grew up at. 2nd, boxing I have boxed myself, 3rd I also have a MBA...So since I dont know you, I will not sayyou dont have a education, I would think you should be mature enough and smart enough to give other posters the same respect.

As for you trying with out any real substance to show that Chavez or Tyson where the fighters of he 80's, I dont think you can go anywhere and get a majority of people that would support Chavez or Tyson over leonard pound per pound, or the fighter of the 80's. What your trying hard to do is say because Chavez won 37 fights or that Tyson won x amount of fights and or title defenses that this justifies them being the fighter of the 80's.

Ask yourself London why dont anyone else go by that (ir)rationality. That is because it is quality of opposition, and I dont know your age, but if you where around in when Ray Leonard was fighting up until hagler, you know he pretty much owned boxing and carried it. He was the man that everyone wanted to see fight (fans), the one that everyone wanted to fight (fighters) for money, and beat (fighters) because his name on your resume meant elite status if you won...He also single handidly changed boxing for the fighters in the lower weight divisions. Developed the blue print for getting paid, marketing, and his style has resonated with Camacho, Jones, Whitcker somewhat, Mayweather, taylor.

However the reason why he was regarded by those who are much more respected than YOU are my friend and judging by your completley unintelligent rant against Ali on a earlier post it seeams your not that well versed about quality of opposition and how that is a true measure.


Leonards best fightts in the 80's
Duran I
Duran II
Hearns
Hagler
Kalule

VS

Chaves best fights in the 80's
Ricky lockridge
Edwin Rosario
Jose luis Ramirez
Juan la Porte

Hmmmm..Which one of Chavez opponents are ranked in the top 40 all time top pound per pound?


These fights coupled with his accomplishments easily land him over Chavez who beat Who of thes status of just one of these fighters? Tell us. Seems like every time he stepped north of the border he got his ass handed to him. Most of these were in the 90's however. Taylor, Randall, Sweat Pea...All legitimately beat him, but he was given gifts or the other fighter was robbed (taylor 2 sec left in fight he was winning and was up and wuld not hve been hit again).

Tyson beat who great? Old Larry Holmes, overblown Mike Spinks...Tell us who the level of Duran, Hearns, or Hagler pound per pound did Tyson Beat in the 80's.

Finally do I need to show you that since ray fought andy price that almost everytime he stepped in the ring it was vs a top flight challenger. Not everytime but almost everytime. I would take that vs the fights that Chavez had in the 80's vs Ramox Aramburu, Rodolfo Batta, Refugio Rojas, Roberto Lindo...These where fights after he won a title. Compare that to the fighters leonard repeatedly stepped in the ring against once he was a champion.. NO CONTEST.

So please do us a favor, have some substance. I am by no means saying chavez is not a great fighter, but just because he won 37 fights does not mean it measures up to what leonard accomplished in the 80's

Check your facts!!!

[LondonRingRules]

Compare that to the fighters leonard repeatedly stepped in the ring against once he was a champion.. NO CONTEST.

So please do us a favor, have some substance. I am by no means saying chavez is not a great fighter, but just because he won 37 fights does not mean it measures up to what leonard accomplished in the 80's

Check your facts!!!

** My, my, Mr. Pink, it's been quite amusing to watch your toss out your best haymakers at phantoms.

Like I said, Sr was 68-0 in the 80s, fighting every other month and about 3 title defenses per year. Ray was fighting once a year on average, this being his tip top prime years with the best sparring/trainers/accomadations money could buy.

Chavez was still a working man's fighter, like Robinson and Greb and Pep before him. He couldn't afford to fight once a year, hire fancy pants trainers and fancy dan sparmates like Leonard could.

Hey, like I say, if you prefer low stat over high stat fighters, that's OK with me. Leonard was a great fighter in his way, but he wasn't exactly settin' the boxing world afire in his last fights of the 80s like superior statistical fighters Chavez and Tyson were.

Oh, sure, been to East St Louis just last year. Spinks brothers filled my thoughts during my brief time there, and no, don't want to live there or in NYC for that matter, though I spent more time in NYC and have a lot of affection for the people there.

Man, was I happy to see NYC in my rearview mirror though. Give me the country anyday.

BTW, Tyson and Oscar have long passed Leonard as the guys who carried boxing and the guys everyone wanted to fight for a payday. Tyson made the legend of Holy and Lewis and Oscar has carried Poppy and Floydy on his back to magnificient riches and legend.

Cheerio now..........

[wpink1]

** My, my, Mr. Pink, it's been quite amusing to watch your toss out your best haymakers at phantoms.

Like I said, Sr was 68-0 in the 80s, fighting every other month and about 3 title defenses per year. Ray was fighting once a year on average, this being his tip top prime years with the best sparring/trainers/accomadations money could buy.

Chavez was still a working man's fighter, like Robinson and Greb and Pep before him. He couldn't afford to fight once a year, hire fancy pants trainers and fancy dan sparmates like Leonard could.

Hey, like I say, if you prefer low stat over high stat fighters, that's OK with me. Leonard was a great fighter in his way, but he wasn't exactly settin' the boxing world afire in his last fights of the 80s like superior statistical fighters Chavez and Tyson were.

Oh, sure, been to East St Louis just last year. Spinks brothers filled my thoughts during my brief time there, and no, don't want to live there or in NYC for that matter, though I spent more time in NYC and have a lot of affection for the people there.

Man, was I happy to see NYC in my rearview mirror though. Give me the country anyday.

BTW, Tyson and Oscar have long passed Leonard as the guys who carried boxing and the guys everyone wanted to fight for a payday. Tyson made the legend of Holy and Lewis and Oscar has carried Poppy and Floydy on his back to magnificient riches and legend.

Cheerio now..........

You get no arguement from me on your last post. Each of us have our own biases. I respect and value Chavez for his workman like approach to boxing. He was a credit to the sport, and was elite. My only point was that Leonard may have had a shortened career, but the substance, the quality of it was awe inspiring. You have to admit from 79-til he beat hagler, even in retirment he carried boxing until Tyson came on the scene. Hagler should have but, for some reason he was never given the respect he deserved.

part of why he did, thought is simply cuz he fought the best and beat the best. Was he lucky to have a duran, benitez, hagler and hearns, yes. Would his career have been thought of dfferently had he had the same record and not beaten hagler and hearns, only benitez and Duran...Yes it would have been, he would have been a wasted talent, but the fact is he did have these 4, and since it is all about opininions...Most opinins that are respected consider the quality of beating those four enought to place him top 15 all time, and best of the 80's

[leemoorcroft]

40s louis/robinson 50s rocky marciano/ henry armstrong 60s ali 70s duran/ali 80s lenard/tyson 90s oscar delahoya/ p,whitkker 00s calzaghe/manny pac was calzaghe or mayweather and just for more entertainment give it to joe pac gets there threw fighting the best all the way frew his carrer morales marquez barrera oscar oscar in the 90s over jones for beating fighter camacho chavez fighting trinadad leila whittker oscar was a beast back then not the shadow of when mayweather and pac got him

[BennyST]

Name one other fighter who has beaten the likes of a Duran, Hagler and Hearns.

I thought Duran was an overrated bum who didn't beat anyone?

Oh, and Chavez didn't lose until '94 or something against Whitaker so that doesn't really come into it for the 80's. I still agree with you though.

Anyway, it's all pretty straight forward really.
Mayweather and Pac - 00's
Jones, Whitaker, and Hoya - 90's
Leonard and Hagler - 80's
Duran and Monzon - 70's
Ali and Jofre - 60's
Robinson - 50's
Louis, Pep, Robinson - 40's
Armstrong - 30's
Greb - 20's
etc
etc

There are really only a few guys that you could choose for each decade with some huge guys crossing over a lot. Chavez could go in the eighties but he was biggest in the 90's. Did his best stuff in the 80's certainly, from his first title win to the Taylor win, after which he started to go slowly down but it was also when he was most famous. Leonard was easily the name of the eighties, while Hagler was also another crossover doing the majority of his career in the 70's but not getting huge until the early to mid 80's.

[Benncollinsaad]

The reason why almost every intelligent boxing expert ad most respected boxing sources have given Ray almost every single boxer of the 80's award, including Ring ****zine boxer of the decade, etc.. is because he fought in the biggest fights of the decade and won almost all of them, and the one he lost he immediately avenged. Chavez, and Tyson both had no where near the great wins that Leonard had. Hagler...hell, his bes wins were vs welters who moved up to him, and Leonard came out of retirement for the most part of 5 years and beat him.

Name one other fighter who has beaten the likes of a Duran, Hagler and Hearns. Tyson beat bums, Chavez ws a very good fighter but beat no one the likes of a duran, hearns or hagler....and yes he lost to Whitacker. The knocks on Ray due to inactivity and his lost of skill when he came back from retirement are all valid. However, you cant name another fighter who carried the decade or at least part of it like leonad did and simultaneously beat greats, that is 3 all time top 30 pound per pound greats, while they where at or close to their peak!

You call that charade he put on against Duran, avenging his loss??! And he didn't beat Hagler. He only beat a fat old Duran who fought above his natural weight and he lost to Hearns the second time, winning the first time only because Hearns' bad stamina.

Leonard was a con artist. Ask *****, he feels the same.