My Top 10 All Time P4p.

[1g5a22]

1.HARRY GREB the greatest, see my other thread on him

2.MICKEY WALKER WW and MW champ,who almost won the HW and LHW belt too.

3.BOB FITZSIMMONS middleweight,lightheavy andd heavyweight world champion

4.RAY ROBINSON WW and MW champ,has to be in anyones top 5

5.HENRY ARMSTRONG the first man to hold 3 or more titles simultaneously

6.ROBERTO DURAN one of my favourite fighters,raw instinct and the best lightweight ever

7.SAM LANGFORD deserves more recognition,fought from lightweight to heavyweight

8.JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ 6 world titles in three weights

9.ROCKY MARCIANO i hesitate to put a heavyweight in the list but if it had to be any then its marciano, simply for the fact he was a small heavyweight with one of the hardest punchers ever

10.OSCAR DELAHOYA i had to include one modern day fighter to balance it up,

it was a toss up between him and jones but jones didnt impress me at lightheavy(tarver and johnson) and the heavyweight roids thing was laughable but at MW and SMW he was great,

oscar a 6 weight world champ and fairly consistent in them all,,except middleweight,but he gave a good showing against a taller, heavier and much stronger guy(hopkins)it was a good competitive fight untill the KO

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HONOURABLE MENTIONS:jimmy wilde,joe gans,joe louis,ali,willie pep

please dont confuse the greatest fighters ever with the greatest p4p fighters ever,there is a marked difference!

[cotto16]

1 Roberto Duran
2 Pernall Whitaker
3 Henry Armstrong
4 Sugar Ray Robinson
5 Cassisus Clay
6 Mike Tyson
7 Roy Jones
8 Floyd Mayweather
9 Sugar ray leornard
10 Aaron Pryor

[AntonTheMeh]

mickey's good.but chavez is too high in my opinion.


my list.
1.henry armstrong.
held three titles at one time and almost a fourth had he not gotten robbed.
that would have been half the title back then.half.
149 w[101 ko]21L[ko2]d[10]

2.ray robinson.ray won his first title at 26 after countless duckings.he won and loss the middleweight title 5 times.
179w[108 ko]19L[ko1]d[6]

3.roberto duran.considered the greatest lightweight of all time, who went up to beat the great ray leonard at welter.beat iran barkley for a middleweight title title,and fought a competitive fight vs one of the top three middleweights of all time in hagler.[also got ktfo by hearns styles make fights]
103w[70ko]16L[4ko]

4.harry greb.world middleweight champion of the world,and the american light heavyweight title.also legend has it,he whooped prime dempsey's ass in sparring. won 260 fights.
260w[48ko]21L[ko2]d[17]

5.ray leonard.3 division champ.beat the best of his era. benitez,hearns[top 5 welterweight ever],duran[possibly the greatest lightweight ever] and hagler[possible the greatest middleweight ever]in a controversial decision.didn't fight much though.
record 36w[25 ko]3[1ko]

6.sam langford."the greatest fighter nobody knows"fought from welterweight to heavyweight.never won a title, still nonetheless a great fighter, with a record of 201 wins[130 ko] lost 47[9 by ko]

7..tommy hearns.won 6 titles from welterweight to cruiserweight.
61w[48ko]5L[4ko]d[1]

8.pernell whitaker.first undisputed lightweight champion since roberto duran.won titles from lightweight to light middleweight.
40w[17ko]4L[1ko]d[1]

9.alexis arguello.el flaco explosivo was a 3 div champ that was like watching poetry in motion.
80w[65ko]8L[4ko]

10.wilfredo benitez.youngest champion in history at 17.held titles at light welterweight to light middleweight.
53w[31ko]8L[4ko]d[1]

legends on the outside.
11.roy jones
12.julio cesar chavez



current fighters who could get in a couple of fights.
floyd mayweather
manny pacquiao

of course this is my list feel free to put yours up.

[them_apples]

Sort of a lot of overrated older fighter that would get their ass wooped by newer better p4p fighters.


Jones Jr
Mayweather
Pacquaio
Ray Leonard
Roberto Duran
Thomas Hearns
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield

in no particular order

[randy johnson]

.HARRY GREB the greatest, see my other thread on him

2.MICKEY WALKER WW and MW champ,who almost won the HW and LHW belt too.

3.BOB FITZSIMMONS middleweight,lightheavy andd heavyweight world champion

4.RAY ROBINSON WW and MW champ,has to be in anyones top 5

5.HENRY ARMSTRONG the first man to hold 3 or more titles simultaneously

6.ROBERTO DURAN one of my favourite fighters,raw instinct and the best lightweight ever

7.SAM LANGFORD deserves more recognition,fought from lightweight to heavyweight

8.JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ 6 world titles in three weights

9.ROCKY MARCIANO i hesitate to put a heavyweight in the list but if it had to be any then its marciano, simply for the fact he was a small heavyweight with one of the hardest punchers ever

10.OSCAR DELAHOYA i had to include one modern day fighter to balance it up,


1 How many times have you seen Harry Greb fight?So where are you getting he was great from?Some old idiotic so called boxing expert?
2 Micky Walker huh?Just read number 1
3 When Roberto Duran stepped up he usually lost.Did you see how Tommy Hearns destroyed him?So why isn't Tommy Hearns on your list?
4 How many black guys did Sugar Ray Robinson fight in his career?Not many right?He had a padded record fighting mostly mob controlled italian fighters.Bring Robinson back to life and let him face guys like Julian Jackson,Nigel Benn, Roy Jones Jr,Tommy Hearns,Marvin Halger and the likes and then if he can still win then he would deserve to be up here.
5.Henry Armstrong....how many times did you see him fight?Enough said.
6.Bob Fitzsimmons....again how many fights of his got video taped?.
7 Sam Langford....look i have to type the same thing over again.Not many of this fightes were taped so you dont know how good he was you are just going on what you heard.
8.Julio Cesar Chavez...A career fighting mostly other mexicans.To be blunt...we all know that most of the best fighters for some odd reason are either black or white.
9 Rocky Marciano....he punches hard because who says so?You?Because it took him 8 rounds to knock out Archie Moore a man who was a natural middleweight and was knocked out by naturla middlweights.Rocky Marciano only had the power to knock out bums.A no talent slow unskilled guy like Marciano shouldn't even be on the top million boxers of all time.
10.Oscar De La Hoya.A guy who loses to every good white or black fighter he gets in the ring with.2 times to Shane Mosely,1 time to Pernell Whitaker,Ike Quartey,Bernard Hopkins,Mayweather,and Felix Sturm.What exactly is he good at?

No fighter that any of us seen have seen should be ranked in any pound for pound catagory.Tommy Hearns had great power but lacked the chin.Halger was pretty slow for a middleweight.Sugar Ray Leonard's chin was shakey some times.Ali had no real power and was a pretty poor boxer which is the reason he is the way he is today.
But if I had to choose some fighters who in their prime who would be tough to beat because of their skills.I would choose these.
Julian Jackson if he had better trainer.
George Foreman if he didn't have such a big ego.
Tommy Hearns if he learned when to slug and when to box.
Pernell Whitaker period.
Hmmm.basically that is all i can think of.

[aussieboxer2320]

.HARRY GREB the greatest, see my other thread on him

2.MICKEY WALKER WW and MW champ,who almost won the HW and LHW belt too.

3.BOB FITZSIMMONS middleweight,lightheavy andd heavyweight world champion

4.RAY ROBINSON WW and MW champ,has to be in anyones top 5

5.HENRY ARMSTRONG the first man to hold 3 or more titles simultaneously

6.ROBERTO DURAN one of my favourite fighters,raw instinct and the best lightweight ever

7.SAM LANGFORD deserves more recognition,fought from lightweight to heavyweight

8.JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ 6 world titles in three weights

9.ROCKY MARCIANO i hesitate to put a heavyweight in the list but if it had to be any then its marciano, simply for the fact he was a small heavyweight with one of the hardest punchers ever

10.OSCAR DELAHOYA i had to include one modern day fighter to balance it up,


1 How many times have you seen Harry Greb fight?So where are you getting he was great from?Some old idiotic so called boxing expert?
2 Micky Walker huh?Just read number 1
3 When Roberto Duran stepped up he usually lost.Did you see how Tommy Hearns destroyed him?So why isn't Tommy Hearns on your list?
4 How many black guys did Sugar Ray Robinson fight in his career?Not many right?He had a padded record fighting mostly mob controlled italian fighters.Bring Robinson back to life and let him face guys like Julian Jackson,Nigel Benn, Roy Jones Jr,Tommy Hearns,Marvin Halger and the likes and then if he can still win then he would deserve to be up here.
5.Henry Armstrong....how many times did you see him fight?Enough said.
6.Bob Fitzsimmons....again how many fights of his got video taped?.
7 Sam Langford....look i have to type the same thing over again.Not many of this fightes were taped so you dont know how good he was you are just going on what you heard.
8.Julio Cesar Chavez...A career fighting mostly other mexicans.To be blunt...we all know that most of the best fighters for some odd reason are either black or white.
9 Rocky Marciano....he punches hard because who says so?You?Because it took him 8 rounds to knock out Archie Moore a man who was a natural middleweight and was knocked out by naturla middlweights.Rocky Marciano only had the power to knock out bums.A no talent slow unskilled guy like Marciano shouldn't even be on the top million boxers of all time.
10.Oscar De La Hoya.A guy who loses to every good white or black fighter he gets in the ring with.2 times to Shane Mosely,1 time to Pernell Whitaker,Ike Quartey,Bernard Hopkins,Mayweather,and Felix Sturm.What exactly is he good at?

No fighter that any of us seen have seen should be ranked in any pound for pound catagory.Tommy Hearns had great power but lacked the chin.Halger was pretty slow for a middleweight.Sugar Ray Leonard's chin was shakey some times.Ali had no real power and was a pretty poor boxer which is the reason he is the way he is today.
But if I had to choose some fighters who in their prime who would be tough to beat because of their skills.I would choose these.
Julian Jackson if he had better trainer.
George Foreman if he didn't have such a big ego.
Tommy Hearns if he learned when to slug and when to box.
Pernell Whitaker period.
Hmmm.basically that is all i can think of.

congratulations, i never thought someone would be able to put together a list denegrating the best fighters of all time but there you go you've done it and made yourself look like a complete idiot.


my list:

1. sugar ray robinson: welter and middleweight champ, brilliant all round boxer, had over 200 fights, beat the best welters and middleweights of his era. almost universally regarded as the best ever.

2. Henry Armstrong: ferocious boxer, awesome stamina, only man to hold titles at three weights at the same time, pretty awesome achievment.

3. Roberto Duran: had all the skills, easily the greatest lightweight ever,nearly unbeatable as a lw, went on to win titles at welterweight and middleweight against bigger men. (only 5''7, very short for a middleweight, and below average for welterweight) did lose to other ATG's but this was above his natural weight and when he was in his 30's. however he did record a great victory against one. (srl)

4. willie pep: regarded as the most elusive fighter ever, featherweight champ, had some great victories, nearly untouchable defence wise.

5. Alexis Arguello: featherweight,super featherweight and lightweight champ, lost a very su****ious bout to aaron pryor, had great power and was very skilled and explosive in the ring.

6.sugar ray leonard: multiple weight champion, won some awesome fights in what was actually a rather brief but glamourous career.

7. joe louis: held the heavyweight title for ages, huge puncher, very tenacious, fought in a strong era, continued to fight until way past his prime.

8. muhammad ali: one of the best known boxers of all time, awesome speed and skill, won against george foreman, a fight he wasnt expected to win, two victories and one loss against joe frazier, another top class heavyweight, three time heavyweight champ.

9. harry greb: from what has been said about him he was an outstanding boxer, fought half blind for alot of his career which says a hell of alot about his talent.

10. pernell whittaker: great fighter, awesome defence, multiple weight class champ, latter half of his career hampered by a ******* addiction.

so there, thats a top ten off my head, some great fighters were left out though, such as jimmy wilde, joe frazier, jack dempsey, julio cesar chavez, tommy hearns, marvin hagler, jake la motta, george foreman, mike tyson,.......rocky graziano,salvador sanchez ( too short a career , had the potential to be a top 10 p4p) wilfredo benitez .......and countless more

[slicksouthpaw16]

This is my personal top 10 all time pound for pound list.
1. Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammed Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Willie Pep
6. Roberto Duran
7. Sam Langford
8. Jack Johnson
9. Harry Greb
10. Ray Leonard

[Tam-Tam]

Top 15 P4P

1. Ray Robinson: - Most talented fighter of all-time. #1 welterweight and my #2 middleweight. Amazing.

2. Roberto Duran: - In his lightweight prime, Duran has my vote for the fighter who came the closest to perfection. The man was an absolute beast, who once released upon his opponents would systematically mutilate them as the rounds passed. Also happened to take out an undefeated Leonard @ 147 and won the middleweight crown as well.

3. Henry Armstrong: - The greatest in your face fighter of all-time. Had power to spare in each hand and the will to give it to you for 15. 19 welterweight defences, featherweight, lightweight and welterweight champion simultaneously. Top 3 all-time @ 126, 135 and 147. What else needs be said?

4. Muhammad Ali: - Sometimes falls below Louis simply because they favour Joe's offensive talents, over Ali's all around physical ability. For his size, he had incredible hand speed, a terrific chin and just beat everybody in the greatest heavyweight era of all-time. No other justification is needed.

5. Ezzard Charles: - Could possibly be the most underrated fighter of all-time. I continually come across people who say "Ezzard Charles? You mean the guy that beat the old Joe Louis?" No, I mean Ezzard Charles, the man who dominated Archie Moore three times and every other light heavyweight of his era. Without doubt in my mind, the #1 light heavyweight all-time, who also happened to be an excellent heavyweight champion in his time as well.

6. Joe Louis: - Near flawless offensive fighter, with all the punches in the book. Could through combinations like he was a middleweight, but possessed the punch of a small explosive device. Record number of heavyweight title defences, and had the heart to possibly beat anyone who ever lived.

7. Eder Jofre: - This Brazilian wonder, was the best bantamweight of all-time. Terrific boxer-puncher who gave just about the best imitation of a 118 pound Ray Robinson as anyone ever could. Only two losses of his career came in back to back fights to the great Fighting Harada, when Jofre had great difficulty making the 118-pound limit.

8. Carlos Monzon: - My #1 middleweight of all-time. The lanky Argentinean used his jab and long right hands to slowly dismantle his opponents. He didn't LOOK like a one of the best fighters of all-time now and then, but once the slow starting Monzon got rolling, little could be done to derail him. Held the record for most middleweight defences, until Bernard Hopkins recently broke it.

9. Harry Greb: - In large, he remains a mystery, but to not include him would tarnish his legend. I've decided to place him here, although I don't feel confident no matter where he is. His record however does speak for itself. Only man to defeat Gene Tunney. Has wins over Mickey Walker, Tiger Flowers, Tommy Loughran and Kid Norfolk. Over 300 fights, with a winning percentage of over 90.

10. Ray Leonard: - Here is a pick that I believe may irk a few. Leonard has the resume and the talent to be within the top five, yet sits @ 10. Why? Well, his career really did stop and start, thus eliminating the sort of draw out dominance, which I like to see. Hagler was on his last legs and I still think he did enough to retain his title. Splitting with Duran is fine, and stopping Tommy Hearns and Wilfred Benitez is great wins. Just too many retirements unfortunately, ruined his prime.

11. Willie Pep: - The best defensive fighter of all-time. How do you beat someone you can't touch with a broomstick? Won 135 of his first 136 fights, with the only loss to lightweight king, Sammy Angot. Even after a plane crash nearly killed him, he was still able to knock off top competition. Sandy Saddler may have had his number, but there is no shame in that.

12. Sam Langford: - Dominant fighter at just about every weight from welterweight upward. Incredible KO power in each hand, chin and immense talent/ability for his time. Without doubt, the greatest fighter never to win a world title, even though he was never afforded the chance.

13. Archie Moore: - The all-time record holder of KO wins, Archie is a popular choice as the #1 light heavyweight of all-time. Personally, I don't like him there, but there is little not to love about the 'Old Mongoose'. As crafty as anyone who ever fought, Moore's patience and punch helped him be dominant well into his 40's. Might have even been a better middleweight, but we might never know.

14. Benny Leonard: - If Pep was the best defensive fighter of all-time; Benny would not be far behind. A genius in the ring, he had talents many men ranked above him lacked. Good punch, and Ray Arcel will insist he was better than Duran. I don't quite think that, but as a lightweight, it is indeed a close race between the two.

15. Marvin Hagler:- The dominant middleweight, during a terrific period for 160 pounders. Has wins over hall of famers, Tommy Hearns and Roberto Duran along with a razor thin, and very controversial loss to Sugar Ray Leonard. A tough, iron chined, yet incredibly talented fighter, Hagler was a joy to watch. Conjured up images of Carlos Monzon, such was the manor in which he ruled the division. They are split narrowly on head-to-head ability. I think Monzon was slightly the better fighter.

**I rank fighters on the following criteria:

1. Display of skills, abilities and technique

2. Accomplishments

3. Competition

4. Dominance

5. Longevity,

And finally

6. Head-to-head, against the other greats.

**No current fights are ranked, as I do not like chopping and changing my lists as fighters win and lose. Once they retire, they become eligible for inclusion.

[Sharkey]

Dear Tam;

I must say that your ranking is absolute ****.

With love,
Pandy

[Tam-Tam]

No Yogi today?