George Foreman : Overrated?

[Hawkins]

I don't understand how people are saying anyone who roots for Tyson has a lack of boxing knowledge, if anything watching millions of older fighters would just encourage them into rooting for Tyson even more.

Like honestly, what would bring you to think Liston would stand a chance vs Tyson? Tyson is faster, he knocks guys out bigger than him with both hands, he can switch to a south paw on the fly and even his chin is better, and last but not least he had one of the most extreme forms of defense ever witnessed in the boxing scene.

Why would you think Liston hit harder? Tyson hits guys and they go flying across the ring! what evidence is there that proves Liston is a harder hitter?
Tyson dropped Spinks with a body shot (first knock down) He has made guys cry in the ring.

Tyson has a lot of fans because he showed a great level of skill in the ring, he beat the crap out of guys way bigger than him and even lifted them off the ground.

I'm NOT a Biased Tyson fan, I only root for him when I see fit, and when your going to compare guys like Marciano or Liston to Tyson it's almost comical, I wonder what planet your living on.

I'm not trying to be a **** but it makes some of you guys that root for the Old timer's look sort of ****** and naive.

Do I think Tyson was unbeatable? With Rooney in his corner, he's probably the closest fighter to date that could have achieved that status. Every other heavyweight champion has had a major flaw, Tyson's only flaw would be his mind.

In the coming years a better fighter will probably come along, and the wars will continue. But please no more, "this old slow guy that we adore would fix so and so's wagon just because I grew up watching him".

Why did you pick a thread about Foreman to post this in when there are a bunch of threads about Tyson???

[Hawkins]

I don't understand how people are saying anyone who roots for Tyson has a lack of boxing knowledge, if anything watching millions of older fighters would just encourage them into rooting for Tyson even more.

Like honestly, what would bring you to think Liston would stand a chance vs Tyson? Tyson is faster, he knocks guys out bigger than him with both hands, he can switch to a south paw on the fly and even his chin is better, and last but not least he had one of the most extreme forms of defense ever witnessed in the boxing scene.

Why would you think Liston hit harder? Tyson hits guys and they go flying across the ring! what evidence is there that proves Liston is a harder hitter?
Tyson dropped Spinks with a body shot (first knock down) He has made guys cry in the ring.

Tyson has a lot of fans because he showed a great level of skill in the ring, he beat the crap out of guys way bigger than him and even lifted them off the ground.

I'm NOT a Biased Tyson fan, I only root for him when I see fit, and when your going to compare guys like Marciano or Liston to Tyson it's almost comical, I wonder what planet your living on.

I'm not trying to be a **** but it makes some of you guys that root for the Old timer's look sort of ****** and naive.

Do I think Tyson was unbeatable? With Rooney in his corner, he's probably the closest fighter to date that could have achieved that status. Every other heavyweight champion has had a major flaw, Tyson's only flaw would be his mind.

In the coming years a better fighter will probably come along, and the wars will continue. But please no more, "this old slow guy that we adore would fix so and so's wagon just because I grew up watching him".

Why would you choose to put this post about Tyson in a thread about George Foreman when there are 3-4 on the main page of the history forum????

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

I've been doing some research, this is purely a statistical deal, but I found this through hurricane72 and the Top 10 heavyweights thread.

Anyways, this site has all kinds of stats. But one that really intrigued me was the number of ranked opponents/total registered wins.


These stats are only thru 2002, but I think they prove a point.

I'll highlight the stat I refer to.

According to this out 33 victories during his first title run Foreman beat 7 opponents ranked in the top 10. During his second title run, out of 22 victories, he beat 2 in the top 10.

GEORGE FOREMAN 1970-1977 7/33 .21 #1 (1st time champion)
GEORGE FOREMAN 1991-1994 2/22 .09 #3 (2nd time champion)

So, out of 55 wins, only 9 have come against ranked opposition.


Ok lets look at 2 fighters that Foreman is almost always ranked ahead of -

Lennox Lewis, out 37 victories, 16 have come against top 10 opposition.

LENNOX LEWIS 1991-2003 16/37 .43 #1

Mike Tyson, out of 41 victories, 17 have come against top 10 opposition.

MIKE TYSON -1986-2002 17/41 .41 #1

Evander Holyfieldm, out of 34 victories, 16 have come against top 10 opposition.

EVANDER HOLYFIELD-1988-2002 16/34 .47 #1


I think this is one of the clearest indications that Foreman has indeed been overrated in regards to placing him in a top 10 all-time list because clearly going by statistics there are three who deserve placement over him.

Like I said, this is a purely statistical deal but it does paint a pretty revealing picture.

OK so we have Holyfield in 1st and Foreman in last place on just these stats. However, I think in their primes, Foreman would have knocked out Holyfield. He hurt Holyfield a little, 2 times in their 91 or 92 bout and Foreman was an old man. Just like louis was out boxing Marciano for a few rounds when he was 37 and Marciano was in his prime. LOL

[Hawkins]

I don't understand how people are saying anyone who roots for Tyson has a lack of boxing knowledge, if anything watching millions of older fighters would just encourage them into rooting for Tyson even more.

Like honestly, what would bring you to think Liston would stand a chance vs Tyson? Tyson is faster, he knocks guys out bigger than him with both hands, he can switch to a south paw on the fly and even his chin is better, and last but not least he had one of the most extreme forms of defense ever witnessed in the boxing scene.

Why would you think Liston hit harder? Tyson hits guys and they go flying across the ring! what evidence is there that proves Liston is a harder hitter?
Tyson dropped Spinks with a body shot (first knock down) He has made guys cry in the ring.

Tyson has a lot of fans because he showed a great level of skill in the ring, he beat the crap out of guys way bigger than him and even lifted them off the ground.

I'm NOT a Biased Tyson fan, I only root for him when I see fit, and when your going to compare guys like Marciano or Liston to Tyson it's almost comical, I wonder what planet your living on.

I'm not trying to be a **** but it makes some of you guys that root for the Old timer's look sort of ****** and naive.

Do I think Tyson was unbeatable? With Rooney in his corner, he's probably the closest fighter to date that could have achieved that status. Every other heavyweight champion has had a major flaw, Tyson's only flaw would be his mind.

In the coming years a better fighter will probably come along, and the wars will continue. But please no more, "this old slow guy that we adore would fix so and so's wagon just because I grew up watching him".

Well, if all you talk about is one fighter - in every thread - then it does give the strong impression that your knowledge in other areas of boxing are limited.

[them_apples]

why would you quote me 3 times? I responding to the posts, not the thread name..guess it's a little off topic but every thread usually is.

[Hawkins]

OK so we have Holyfield in 1st and Foreman in last place on just these stats. However, I think in their primes, Foreman would have knocked out Holyfield. He hurt Holyfield a little, 2 times in their 91 or 92 bout and Foreman was an old man. Just like louis was out boxing Marciano for a few rounds when he was 37 and Marciano was in his prime. LOL

He may beat him in a head to head match-up prime vs. prime but when all we have to compare them to is stats and past accomplishments Foreman gets his oversized butt handed to him by most all time greats. LOL

I know people will think I'm leading a crusade to get Foreman declassified a top 10 all time great and thats not the case because I genuinely like him. I just think there are some questions that need to be asked.

[Hawkins]

why would you quote me 3 times? I responding to the posts, not the thread name..guess it's a little off topic but every thread usually is.

My net screwed up and it was telling me I had an error because the posts didn't show up. My bad.

[them_apples]

Yea np

Foreman was really lacking in skills, he didn't have the tools to be a long gym champion because he was to easy to figure out. His tremendous power gave him a large fan base and an impressive Ko percentage.

Still, I put him on my ATG list on the sole fact that he had a punchers chance on a very high level.

[Hawkins]

Yea np

Foreman was really lacking in skills, he didn't have the tools to be a long gym champion because he was to easy to figure out. His tremendous power gave him a large fan base and an impressive Ko percentage.

Still, I put him on my ATG list on the sole fact that he had a punchers chance on a very high level.

This is what I don't understand about the logic you guys are using in quantifying Foreman's placement on an all-time list. You're putting him up there by basically saying he's not an all-time great for what he accomplished rather what he could have accomplished.

Going by that logic you'd have to place many fighters in the top 10. Rid**** Bowe and Buster Douglas were two of the best modern heavyweights I've seen when they were on their game and would have had a chance to beat any heavyweight when they were at their peaks. But does that alone predicate a placement on an all-time greats list?

[grayfist]

I dunno, but if Foreman is one of only two people to ever stop George Chuvalo (the other being Frazier), dominated Joe Frazier twice, made short work of a Ken Norton who had just given Ali so much trouble, stopped Ron Lyle who at that point had been beaten only by Ali and Jimmy Young... registered only two losses (once to Ali and once to Young) all in his first incarnation...

Then, returing a few days short of a full decade later to face the prime Holyfield, become only the second man to stop the stubborn Dwight Quawi (Holyfield was the first), stop Gerry Cooney who had been stopped only twice previously and thereafter (by Holmes and Michael Spinks), TKO the then undefeated Jimmy Ellis, win a world title...

Then finished his career after 81 fights, losing 5, and having been stopped only once. By Ali in that Rumble In The Jungle...

Then, I think he deserves much of what he's getting.

I don't think any of Lennox Lewis' opponents come to the level of the Joe Frazier that Foreman defeated twice; not even the Tyson that Lewis beat. Tyson had been beaten three times before facing Lewis.

I don't think Lewis faced, much less beat, anyone with the stubborness of a Chuvalo, who is considered by many as among the toughest heavyweights seen atop the ring...any ring. Foreman took care of Chuvalo in 3 rounds; Frazier took a round longer to do it. Nobody else did.

I'm not sure that the two who dealt Lewis his two defeats (and whom Lewis defeated in return matches, thus giving him the right to claim having defeated every fighter he faced) come close to the Norton, Ellis or Lyle that Foreman took on and out.

One tends to dismiss Gerry Cooney. I'm one of them sometimes. But, while Cooney may not look all that good in the rearview mirror, he was quite something when we saw him through the windshield then as he took care of Norton in 1, Lyle in 1 and Young in 4.

The 41-year-old Foreman dispatched the 34-year-old Cooney in 2 rounds.