Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[Southpaw16BF]

List's will always cause arguements and debates as everyone will have these own views and thoughts etc. I have have never done a offical Top 10 Heavyweight List, and if i did and would spend a good period of time doing lots of research and refreshing my brain.

I have been into boxing for as long as i can remember and i truley study and eat sleep and breathe the sport. And may one day do a Heavyweight ATG List, but here are some of The Ring Magzaine's Heavyweights list over the years.

March 1975 Issue
1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Dempsey
3.Jim Jeffries
4.Jack Johnson
5.Rocky Marciano
6.Gene Tunney
7.Bob Fitzsimmons
8.Jim Corbett
9.Muhammad Ali
10.Joe Frazier

May 1994 Issue
Muhammad Ali
1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Johnson
3.Rocky Marciano
4.Jack Dempsey

July 1998 Issue
1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Evander Holyfield
4.George Foreman
5.Larry Holmes
6.Rocky Marciano
7.Sonny Liston
8.Joe Frazier
9.Jack Johnson
10.Jack Dempsey
11.Ezzard Charles
12.Jim Jeffries
13.Jersey Joe Walcott
14.Mike Tyson
15.Gene Tunney
16.Harry Wills
17.Sam Langford
18.John L. Sullivan
19.Max Schmeling
20.Max Baer

[JAB5239]

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Rocky Marciano
4. Larry Holmes
5. George Foreman
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Jack Johnson
7. Jack Dempsey
8. Joe Frazier
9. Jim Jeffries
10. Sonny Liston


Heres a new list I created but I'm still pondering over it. This is just a rough draft that I can go back and edit. I can't decide where to put Holyfield at the moment so I left him off for now.

Opinions will vary when it comes to all time great lists and the order they're in. While mine differs from yours a bit I still see yours as respectable. The only thing I take exception to is Jeffries at number 9. While a great fighter no doubt, I can't justify him being higher than Lidton, Tyson or Holyfield. With all due respect, Im curious why you rank him so high, my friend?

[Jim Jeffries]

List's will always cause arguements and debates as everyone will have these own views and thoughts etc. I have have never done a offical Top 10 Heavyweight List, and if i did and would spend a good period of time doing lots of research and refreshing my brain.

I have been into boxing for as long as i can remember and i truley study and eat sleep and breathe the sport. And may one day do a Heavyweight ATG List, but here are some of The Ring Magzaine's Heavyweights list over the years.

March 1975 Issue
1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Dempsey
3.Jim Jeffries
4.Jack Johnson
5.Rocky Marciano
6.Gene Tunney
7.Bob Fitzsimmons
8.Jim Corbett
9.Muhammad Ali
10.Joe Frazier

May 1994 Issue
Muhammad Ali
1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Johnson
3.Rocky Marciano
4.Jack Dempsey

July 1998 Issue
1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Evander Holyfield
4.George Foreman
5.Larry Holmes
6.Rocky Marciano
7.Sonny Liston
8.Joe Frazier
9.Jack Johnson
10.Jack Dempsey
11.Ezzard Charles
12.Jim Jeffries
13.Jersey Joe Walcott
14.Mike Tyson
15.Gene Tunney
16.Harry Wills
17.Sam Langford
18.John L. Sullivan
19.Max Schmeling
20.Max Baer

Funny how over 80 years of HW champs, Jim Jeffries was ranked as the 3rd best ever, another 34 years go by, and now he's nowhere to be seen on anyone's top 10 list. Now we had a damn good era in the 70's and I'm fine with guys like Ali, Foreman, even Frazier displacing him. But with the crappy eras we've had since then, maybe only Holmes, Holyfield, Tyson and Lewis sticking out, it seems like he should still crack the top 10. Somewhere along the line, even Jack Johnson leapfrogged him, even though to my knowledge, neither Jack or Jim have fought in a very LONG time.

Another one that seems to have disappeared from lists is Jack Dempsey, with increasing scrutiny being applied to his resume as well. Strange.

[Clegg]

1> Muhammad Ali
2> Larry Holmes
3> Lennox Lewis
4> George Foreman
5> Joe Louis
6> Sonny Liston
7> Rocky Marciano
8> Evander Holyfield
9> Mike Tyson
10> Joe Frazier

This is just off the top of my head. I might have a different order if I thought about it again tomorrow (for example, I'd make Lennox a very slight favourite over Holmes, but I think LH would have an easier time against Foreman.

Not much space for the older guys, and I'll explain why: For Johnson and Tunney, I simply don't see their style working against significantly larger opposition, at least not if they are as good as the names listed above. Perhaps if they had the benefit of Evan Fields' training supplements it'd be different.

For Dempsey...people often say that he had underrated defence, and perhaps that's the case, but I personally feel that he had inferior head movement and punch resistance to Tyson, and although he's probably more likely to maintain his effectiveness into the late rounds, that isn't enough for me to believe that he'd do better in head-to-head matchups than MT would.

Frazier would have a tough time with those 3, but he gets rated higher due to his superior wins.

[The Iron Man]

Nice list clegg, i guess it would look significantly different if it wasn't based on who could beat who?

[-CANE-]

1> Muhammad Ali
2> Larry Holmes
3> Lennox Lewis
4> George Foreman
5> Joe Louis
6> Sonny Liston
7> Rocky Marciano
8> Evander Holyfield
9> Mike Tyson
10> Joe Frazier

This is just off the top of my head. I might have a different order if I thought about it again tomorrow (for example, I'd make Lennox a very slight favourite over Holmes, but I think LH would have an easier time against Foreman.

Not much space for the older guys, and I'll explain why: For Johnson and Tunney, I simply don't see their style working against significantly larger opposition, at least not if they are as good as the names listed above. Perhaps if they had the benefit of Evan Fields' training supplements it'd be different.

For Dempsey...people often say that he had underrated defence, and perhaps that's the case, but I personally feel that he had inferior head movement and punch resistance to Tyson, and although he's probably more likely to maintain his effectiveness into the late rounds, that isn't enough for me to believe that he'd do better in head-to-head matchups than MT would.

Frazier would have a tough time with those 3, but he gets rated higher due to his superior wins.

Nice list Clegg and thanks for posting.

I think many lists vary so much purely because everyone uses different criteria when establishing a list.

I'm glad that you stated this is on a who would beat who basis.

It's incredibly difficult to imagine guys like Johnson, Jeffries and many fighters from a long time ago competing with many of the recent champions and this is because boxing has moved on so much.

I think what one needs to do is try and even things up a bit by imagining them as if they were around today or put Lewis, Ali etc back in the early 1900's and then see how you think they would match up.

Doing this then my list today would be like this:- (my top 4 would stay the same but the order changes from day to day)

1 L.Lewis
2 J.Louis
3 L.Holmes
4 M.Ali
5 J.Johnson
6 G.Tunney
7 H.Wills
8 S.Liston
9 G.Foreman
10 R.Marciano
11 S.McVey
12 M.Tyson
13 E.Holyfield
14 E.Charles
15 J.Frazier
16 J.J.Jeffries
17 S.Langford
18 J.Dempsey
19 J.Jeanette
20 R.Bowe


I also did a list on accomplishments and scored them in various different categories, this is what I came up with.

1>Total years reigned = 5 points for every year
2>Total number of defenses = 5 points for every defense
3>Times champion = 10 points for every time they became champion, +2 points for every year since they won their first title, until winning 2nd title. e.g George Foreman won the title twice giving him 20points, he won his 1st title in 1973 and his 2nd in 1994 a gap of 21 years giving him a further 42 points.
4>Quality of opposition = A=20 points, B=10 points and C=5 points (Of course this is subjective and my opinion)
5>Impact on the sport = A=20 points, B=10 points and C=5 points (Again this is subjective and my own opinion)

Here is how the fighters scored

1> Muhammed Ali,8 yrs,19 def,3 time champ,A QofOpp,A Impact = 233 points
2> Joe Louis,12 yrs,25 def,1 time champ,B,A = 225 points
3> Lennox Lewis,9 yrs,14 def,3 time champ,A,C = 168 points
4> Larry Holmes,7 yrs,20 def,1 time champ,A,C = 160 points
5> Evander Holyfield,7 yrs,7 def,4 time champ,A,C = 145 points
6> Mike Tyson,5 yrs,10 def,2 time champ,A,A = 145 points
7> George Foreman,2 yrs,3 def,2 time champ,A,A = 127 points
8> Joe Frazier,5 yrs,9 def,1 time champ,A,B = 110 points
9> Jack Johnson,7 yrs,6 def,1 time champ,B,A = 105 points
10>Rocky Marciano,4 yrs,6 def,1 time champ,A,A = 100 points
11>Jack Dempsey,7 yrs,5 def,1 time champ,B,A = 100 points
12>Floyd Patterson,6 yrs,6 def,2 time champ,C,C = 97 points
13>James J. Jeffries,5 yrs,6 def,1 time champ,A,B = 95 points
14>Tommy Burns,2 yrs,11 def,1 time champ,C,C = 85 points
15>Ezzard Charles,2 yrs,8 def,1 time champ,C,B = 75 points
16>Sonny Liston,2 yrs,2 def,1 time champ,B,B = 50 points

[LondonRingRules]

I also did a list on accomplishments and scored them in various different categories, this is what I came up with.

1>Total years reigned = 5 points for every year
2>Total number of defenses = 5 points for every defense
3>Times champion = 10 points for every time they became champion, +2 points for every year since they won their first title, until winning 2nd title. e.g George Foreman won the title twice giving him 20points, he won his 1st title in 1973 and his 2nd in 1994 a gap of 21 years giving him a further 42 points.

** Your list favors modern fighters, but then that's no surprise.

Oldtimers fighting in eras where they could be jailed for fighting and title claimants who didn't have the promotional push of a half dozen ABC orgs behind them lose out in your system. The Jim Corbetts, Peter Jacksons, Sam Langfords, Joe Jeannettes, Sonny Listons, Joe Choynskis, they get shoved aside for endless consecutive ununified alphabet defenses today eh?

Well, no surprises there.

[Fi5hbone]

It all depends on if the list is one based on individual fighters accomplishments or if the list is a reflection on who beats who...

If we're talking accomplishments .....

1. Joe Louis
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Jack Johnson
4. Harry Greb
5. Muhammed Ali
6. Larry Holmes
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Mike Tyson
9. Sonny Liston
10. Lennox Lewis


If we're talkin who beats who....

1. Cassius Clay
2. Larry Holmes
3. George Foreman
4. Joe Frazier
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Mike Tyson
7. Sonny Liston
8. Evander Holyfield
9. Joe Louis
10. Rocky Marciano

[StarshipTrooper]

It all depends on if the list is one based on individual fighters accomplishments or if the list is a reflection on who beats who...

If we're talking accomplishments .....

1. Joe Louis
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Jack Johnson
4. Harry Greb
5. Muhammed Ali
6. Larry Holmes
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Mike Tyson
9. Sonny Liston
10. Lennox Lewis


If we're talkin who beats who....

1. Cassius Clay
2. Larry Holmes
3. George Foreman
4. Joe Frazier
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Mike Tyson
7. Sonny Liston
8. Evander Holyfield
9. Joe Louis
10. Rocky Marciano

When I do rankings it's more a variation of "who beats who" in that I mentally have them fight each other a hundred times with the final standings being the rankings.

PS. Some posters are likely to violently attack you for suggesting Louis accomplished anything

Poet

[mickey malone]

Heavens above!! Is this one still going... Well it's breaking news folks!

The Ring ****zine have just brought out their new list.. (I was fortunate enough to have a sneak peep!)

1. Sonny Williams
2. Jean Pierre Coopman
3. Michael Murray
4. Richard Dunn
5. Chuck Gardner
6. Tunney Hunsucker
7. Rocky Sekorski (no 25 on their AT greatest punchers list lol) I'll NEVER get over that!
8. Lorenzo Boyd
9. David Jaco
10. Sammy Scaffe

Satisfied???? All you Ringhuggers..... Something stinks.... I wonder what it is????

Still can't believe Ty Fury fell short lol