Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[Obama]

Doesn't it somewhat hinder your enjoyment of the sport if you limit the fighters you enjoy watching by their colour? Or am I being extremely naive here?

Good arguments can be made for and against that position. It's not naive.

[Obama]

** Heh, heh, the only thing keeping Langford from moving you into the world of Splotto are the limitations of your soft youth.

There is a separate but equal school of thought that Big George DUCKED Jerry Quarry after being owned in sparring. Big George denies ever having sparred Quarry when I emailed him, asking had they ever sparred. Quarry can be seen on at least a couple of era broadcasts bigging up George's strength, calling him the strongest man he ever stepped into the ring with.

George on his old website ranked Quarry after Sam Langford as the two greatest heavies to never hold a title, so obviously thinks quite highly of both, more highly than he rates Wills.

Still, it was very kind of you to include Big George in your top 10 in spite of having fought the most bums, a real peach you are.......

I'm not sure what point you were trying to get at with this...

[essexboy24]

My Personal Top Ten

Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Jack Dempsey
Larry Holmes
Jack Johnson
Joe Frazier
Sonny Liston
Rocky Marciano
George Foreman
Lennox Lewis

It's tough to put them in any order but this is definately the top ten IMO.

[Dave Rado]

With only 22 fights or so, he simply didn't have the same longevity as most other top 10 heavies. Marciano fought 49 times, and against pretty much the best fighters available while champion. In my train of thought the biggest question mark is, how would Jeffries had done if he had 20 or 30 more fights? I can't just put him over fighters who have answered that question and proven their longevity.

I have no doubt as to his talent or durability during the short span he did fight...but would that change against bigger and better comp the older he got?

Anyone who diminishes Jeffries legacy off the Johnson fight has issues. It would be like diminishing Ali's career for thr drubbing he took at the hands of Holmes.

Me personaly, I don't think he would rank any higher had he never come back. His career is just to short for me to think we have an accurate picture of him as a top ten all time heavy.

But the most interesting question to me is: what would have happened if Jeffries had agreed to fight Johnson before he retired, rather than after a six year absence from the ring.

[Jim Jeffries]

But the most interesting question to me is: what would have happened if Jeffries had agreed to fight Johnson before he retired, rather than after a six year absence from the ring.

Also, sure Jeffries only had 22 fights, but 9 of them were against HOFers, and he managed to go 7-1-1, the lone loss after the 6 year layoff you speak of and an almost triple digit weight drain to do it. Would fighting 30 extra journeyman really have made him that much greater? I don't see how anyone could hold the loss to Johnson against him, especially considering the very high ranking he gets these days. But yeah, with a win against a prime Jack, it would be tough to keep him out of the top 10.

It's curious that he was ranked 3rd on most lists back in the early 70s. Now we've definitely had some great HWs since then, but most people today have never even heard of Jeffries, aside from the annoying poster that is his namesake.

[Obama]

If a post prime Corbett (who was not the most durable fighter) could outbox a prime Jeffries for 22 rounds, I'm sure Johnson would have been able to do the same and go the distance. When Johnson fought Jeffries, he didn't just beat the man, he toyed with him from round 1. Jeffries at no point showed signs of promise. The man ducked Johnson when he was champ and karma came to bite him in the ass. All there is to it.

Had he fought Johnson and gave a great showing, he'd actually be rated higher today than he is (and this is assuming he still loses).

[JAB5239]

But the most interesting question to me is: what would have happened if Jeffries had agreed to fight Johnson before he retired, rather than after a six year absence from the ring.

A much tougher fight for Johnson, obviously. Thing is, Jeff wasn't very active the last 2 or 3 years of his career while Johnson was during that time frame. I have to believe that the rust had already started to build on Jeff's career and he would of lost hard fought yet unanimous decision. Just my opinion of course.

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE]

The man ducked Johnson when he was champ and karma came to bite him in the ass.

Jeffries never ducked Johnson out of fear and had even offered to go in a back room and see who came out with the key, to which Johnson declined.

As ugly as it was, it was just a sign of the times.

I find it much more reprehensible that Johnson, after all he'd been thru, refused to give other deserving fighters of color the same opportunity which he was finally afforded.

[Obama]

[QUOTE=JAB5239;5469836]

Jeffries never ducked Johnson out of fear and had even offered to go in a back room and see who came out with the key, to which Johnson declined.

As ugly as it was, it was just a sign of the times.

I find it much more reprehensible that Johnson, after all he'd been thru, refused to give other deserving fighters of color the same opportunity which he was finally afforded.

Of course Johnson declined, he was ****y, not ******ED. That doesn't prove anything about Jeffries' cowardice. Fighting is done in the ring. A Black fighter today could be banned if he did such a thing, forget about the early 1900s.

Johnson not giving a title shot to people he already beat isn't "reprehensible" at all. He was a very defiant man who was trying to prove a point to the White world. He wanted to prove White superiority was a myth. What better way than to beat every top White contender they can throw at you?

[JAB5239]

Of course Johnson declined, he was ****y, not ******ED. That doesn't prove anything about Jeffries' cowardice. Fighting is done in the ring. A Black fighter today could be banned if he did such a thing, forget about the early 1900s.

I don't concur with the atmosphere of the time, but I would hardly call Jeff a "coward" because of what he most likely saw as tradition. There is no indication Jeffries was afraid to fight any man.

Johnson not giving a title shot to people he already beat isn't "reprehensible" at all. He was a very defiant man who was trying to prove a point to the White world. He wanted to prove White superiority was a myth. What better way than to beat every top White contender they can throw at you?

Wrong. Johnson wanted the payday that came with fighting white fighters. Thats all fine and good, but he deprived fighters who were worthy and of his own race the same opportunity he finally got. Whether he had beaten any of them before is irrelevant, as these guys worked their way back to the top. Sam Langford being a perfect example.