** Top 10 HW's ATG...**

[The Surgeon]

You mean don't mention that he lost 2 of 3 to Bowe, one by knock-out?

Or that his first title reign consisted of two defenses to 40+ former champs and one journeyman who nearly knocked him out and that he lost his title to the first "legitimate" contender he faced?

Or maybe that his second reign ended in his first defense to Michael Moorer?

Or perhaps that his whole fame is based on beating a past his best, post-prison Mike Tyson?

Or that he should have gone 0-2 to Lennox Lewis?



Holy fought the best; but the best bested him more often than not. The main reason people want to put him in the Top 10 ATG list is due to the win over Bowe and the first Tyson fight. He deserves credit for both; but they shouldn't be taken out of context in regard to his whole career.

I think Holyfeild shoulda went 1-1 with Lewis, being destroyed the 1st time and winning the 2nd.

[hhascup]

What are your thoughts on Sharkey and how good he could have been vs where he places in reality?

Believe it or not I met Sharkey at one of the boxing affairs.

Sharkey was a little hot headed and that was his down fall. He had Dempsey beat until he complained to the ref. about a low blow. He was a head of Schmeling in their 1st bout, then hit him low. In their 2nd bout, most people thought Schmeling should have gotten the decision.

He had 2 shots at boxing Tunney, BUT blow both of them when he turned his head against Dempsey and fought a draw against Heeney. If he won either one of those matches, I would have fought Tunney.

He could have been much better then he was if he just kept his head. He was a very good boxer, BUT had just an average punch (13 career knockouts).

Sharkey was good, BUT not Great! I wouldn't rate him in my top 20.

[brownpimp88]

tunney had like 5 fights at heavyweight and he's top 10, good lord.

[K-DOGG]

what a joke, lets see what marciano has.

An old moore, an old louis and an old walcott. Holyfield has an old foreman and an old holmes. Tunney beat an out of his prime dempsey twice, holyfield beat a tyson that had 4 tune up matches after his layoff. Tunney lost to greb and fought to a draw with him.

Holyfield beat bowe, which is huge and holyfiled had hepatits a in thier 3rd fight. Holyfield has beat moorer, tyson twice, bowe, foreman, holmes, buster douglas, dokes, pinklon, and at cruiser he beat qawi twice and carlos de leon. Yeah pal that beats the overall resume that marciano and tunney possess.

Okay, I'll play....

Moore had just won the light-heavyweight championship when he faced Marciano...he reigned until stripped some 5 to 7 years later....and was beating ranked contenders. Walcott was the champ...what do you want; and in far better shape than Holmes and Foreman combined for the first Marciano fight. Charles, past his best, true; but an ATG and a former world champ. LaStarza...ranked contender who had nearly beaten Rocky before he won the title. Marciano's win over Louis was an old Louis, true; but one who had beaten other contenders...and Rock stopped him like Tyson stopped Holmes..and Holy could not.

What ranked contender had Foreman beaten by the time he got his title shot? Holmes had beaten Mercer, so he at least earned his shot...but he was past his best. Douglas was ill prepared, Thomas was shot, Tyson of 96 was no where near the Tyson of 91 and was more King Con than King Kong. It was still amazing to see Holy did what he did; but let's not blow it out of proportion. Regardig the hepatitis for Bowe III...that's the first I heard of it and who's fault was that? There's not a hepatitis column in the record books, just a L by K.O.

[K-DOGG]

I think Holyfeild shoulda went 1-1 with Lewis, being destroyed the 1st time and winning the 2nd.

I had the second one closer; but still had Lewis winning....it was a great effort from Holy, though.

[brownpimp88]

Okay, I'll play....

Moore had just won the light-heavyweight championship when he faced Marciano...he reigned until stripped some 5 to 7 years later....and was beating ranked contenders. Walcott was the champ...what do you want; and in far better shape than Holmes and Foreman combined for the first Marciano fight. Charles, past his best, true; but an ATG and a former world champ. LaStarza...ranked contender who had nearly beaten Rocky before he won the title. Marciano's win over Louis was an old Louis, true; but one who had beaten other contenders...and Rock stopped him like Tyson stopped Holmes..and Holy could not.

What ranked contender had Foreman beaten by the time he got his title shot? Holmes had beaten Mercer, so he at least earned his shot...but he was past his best. Douglas was ill prepared, Thomas was shot, Tyson of 96 was no where near the Tyson of 91 and was more King Con than King Kong. It was still amazing to see Holy did what he did; but let's not blow it out of proportion. Regardig the hepatitis for Bowe III...that's the first I heard of it and who's fault was that? There's not a hepatitis column in the record books, just a L by K.O.

what is tunney's record at heavyweight smart guy, 3-0? Holyfield's wins over tyson are more meaningfull than marciano beating louis. Louis was coming off an ass kicking from ezzard. Another thing, rocky quit when he was 32, holyfiled kept fighting and was actually good until he was 37ish. So he was a solid fighter for 12 years, which is double the amount of time that rocky was a solid fighter.

Ezzard and tunney belong on the light heavyweights lists, thats where they were the best.

[hhascup]

I think Holyfeild shoulda went 1-1 with Lewis, being destroyed the 1st time and winning the 2nd.

ROBO, in the 1st bout they boxed to a draw, BUT most people thought Lewis won and in the 2nd bout Lewis won outright.
Here's the score cards:

1st Bout
Judge: Stanley Christodoulou 116-113
Judge: Eugenia Williams 113-115
Judge: Larry O'Connell 115-115

2nd Bout
Judge: Chuck Giampa 116-112
Judge: Bill Graham 117-111
Judge: Jerry Roth 115-113

tunney had like 5 fights at heavyweight and he's top 10, good lord.

That's why I don't rate him in my top 10. If he fought a few years more and beat guys like Sharkey, Schmeling and Baer, I would have. I do think he was a Great boxer, BUT he fought most of his bouts as a Light Heavyweight, as did Ezzard Charles.

[The Surgeon]

I had the second one closer; but still had Lewis winning....it was a great effort from Holy, though.

K DOGG u just kicked the **** out of Holyfeilds career in an expert manner! But i bet if u wanted u could do the same to Dempsey, Tunney ect, The point im tring to make is its 1persons take to anothers, to anothers to anothers, to ........! For me Holy makes it bud

[brownpimp88]

Dissing dempsey's career is so much easier, he made 5 title defences in total. Bert cooper is better than 50/66 people that dempsey has beat. He was champ for 4 years, not 7. He retired for 3 years and remained as champ, lol.

[Yogi]

Although I personally don't rate Tunney in the top ten at heavyweight (barely top twenty for me, I think), he did have a lot more than only three or five fights at heavyweight...try more like a dozen and that's a conservative number, and that record includes the two Dempsey fights, the Heeney fight, as well as fights against top ten rated heavyweights like Tommy Gibbons, Charley Weinhart (x2), Erminio Spalla, Johnny Risko, Jack Renault (all rated at heavy...check for yourself). Fights against Bartley Madden, Martin Burke, Jack Herman, etc., also came at heavyweight.