Comments Thread For: Sergio's Destruction of Paul Williams Demotes Mayweather

[LeadUppercut]

Its the right thing to do, I mean I understand totally purist P4P theory but it has evolved and now boxing takes wins, resume, and activity in addition to theoretically how good ppl think a fighter is which is what its based around.

So based on how boxing is doing this Floyd has to get bumped down when he is not doing anything while other fighters are impressing with meaningful wins, he can't just retain his spot on the basis of an idea ppl have of what he could potentially do.

No way.

That is exactly what P4P ranking is, and that is why I said earlier that it cannot be taken too seriously.

P4P status is a theoretical comparison between fighters, who often fought in completely different era's, and in completely different weight divisions..... in order to determine who was the best fighter.

Most mythical P4P match-ups could never happen because of weight disparity.

You are only referring to the current P4P rankings, and just happened to get lucky that the #1 and #2 P4P are in the same division, during the same era.

It's not about titles, and it's not about legacy.

P4P is based on the concept of the latin phrase Ceteris paribus, or, if all things are equal. It does not just apply to boxing. But the boxing "equal" is weight. Having different weight divisions is how boxing applies "equal".

Mythical P4P match-ups - e.g. Wlad in the top 10 - are based on if both fighters just so happened to be the same size/weight, and in their prime.

So, NOT a meeting arranged at catch-weight, a true relative match-up..... e.g. if a prime Ivan Calderon was 6'6"-250lbs, and took his relative power up to HW with him, could he beat Wlad?

I say that a prime Calderon with relative HW power and the same speed would have more than enough to keep Wlad off him, and would confound him to a UD.

Don't hate on me Wlad fan's, very few HW's in history are genuine P4P fighters imo. That's why HW is my least favorite division.

P4P is completely based on opinion, and nothing else.

When literally applying the phrase Ceteris paribus to boxing, it does not accommodate catch-weights. Why would a true P4P fighter fight at catch-weight?

[GRUSTLER]

Of course you are entitled to your opinion Michael Marley but I have to say that it is a fickle one. Yes it was a great knock out, but I wouldn't even compare it to Pacman's KO of Hatton. Pac battered Hatton before that KO and basically setup that punch.

I really consider Sergio's shot a lucky punch. He lost the 1st round while holding some and breathing hard IMO. I don't think he could have done 12 rounds at the Williams' pace this fight so he gambled. Look at that punch. Both men threw. Sergio's got there first on the button. He had his head turned and his eyes closed. I'm not saying he's no good, I'm just saying that I want to see how he responds in the rubber match before I would elevate him. I bet that after the Mosely v Margarito fight you were calling Mosley the best in the world.

Come on man! Ricky Hatton was easy game for Manny, while Paul
Williams prior was in a war with Martinez in their first fight. Martinez
caught Paul Williams with that same overhand left punch throughout
the fight while it lasted. Then he backed up and timed Williams
and you can see it in his face. He even said that he would knock
Williams out. Manny has been fighting gift Wins. The Paul Williams
win> Diaz, Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey and Margarito wins for
Pac. Honestly Pac has been fighting for titles at catchweights to
pad his legacy. Everybody knew Manny would slay Ricky Hatton
but no way expected Sergio to KO Paul like that.

[Pirao]

Come on man! Ricky Hatton was easy game for Manny, while Paul
Williams prior was in a war with Martinez in their first fight. Martinez
caught Paul Williams with that same overhand left punch throughout
the fight while it lasted. Then he backed up and timed Williams
and you can see it in his face. He even said that he would knock
Williams out. Manny has been fighting gift Wins. The Paul Williams
win> Diaz, Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey and Margarito wins for
Pac. Honestly Pac has been fighting for titles at catchweights to
pad his legacy. Everybody knew Manny would slay Ricky Hatton
but no way expected Sergio to KO Paul like that.

So you predicted that Pac would smash Cotto, Hatton and De La Hoya?

[GRUSTLER]

So you predicted that Pac would smash Cotto, Hatton and De La Hoya?

NO BUT everyone else did including
most likely YOU I went with Hatton
because I thought he would out muscle Pac because
honestly I never was that sold on Pac skill wise but
exciting wise, no doubt! Oscar, thought he would be
too big because Pac never fought a bigger guy. In
regards to Cotto. I pcked Pac first but then later
went with Cotto just because I was hoping it
would be a competitive match up but Pac proved
me wrong and I can admit and man up to that and
each time I gave him his props and due. People,
including Manny's fans thought I was crazy for
Picking all of those guys against Pac and to me,
that is not impressive. Doesn't matter if I picked
over Pac or not because it still remains to be a fact
that Manny Pacquiao hasn't fought anyone to date
that was a threat to him. Roach confirmed this each
time the fights were made.

[Pirao]

NO BUT everyone else did including
most likely YOU I went with Hatton
because I thought he would out muscle Pac because
honestly I never was that sold on Pac skill wise but
exciting wise, no doubt! Oscar, thought he would be
too big because Pac never fought a bigger guy. In
regards to Cotto. I pcked Pac first but then later
went with Cotto just because I was hoping it
would be a competitive match up but Pac proved
me wrong and I can admit and man up to that and
each time I gave him his props and due. People,
including Manny's fans thought I was crazy for
Picking all of those guys against Pac and to me,
that is not impressive. Doesn't matter if I picked
over Pac or not because it still remains to be a fact
that Manny Pacquiao hasn't fought anyone to date
that was a threat to him. Roach confirmed this each
time the fights were made.

No I didn't. And what you're doing is using hindsight. That those guys were smashed by Pacquiao when they were predicted to win, is a credit to Pacquiao, not a demerit.

[GRUSTLER]

No I didn't. And what you're doing is using hindsight. That those guys were smashed by Pacquiao when they were predicted to win, is a credit to Pacquiao, not a demerit.

Ok, then my apologies for Ass/u/me'n you did. I gave
Pacquiao his credit for beating them guys when I thought
he wouldn't but the reality of it is, everyone knew that
Pacquiao would embarrass them. Pacquiao looked spectacular
against guys that had no chance. My mistake was not listening
to Freddie Roach when he predicted that Pac would smash
them out. Mayweather Jr and Martinez fought two guys
that people were up in the air about while Pac's opponents
were already doomed to fail. Pacquiao didn't beat Mayweather
for the top spot OR fight Sugar Shane Mosley who took over
the thrown at WW. How could Pac be over them? Pac
trumps Floyd as far as being more active and exciting
but that's about it. Martinez fought Paul Williams on
short notice fought Kelly Pavlik and whipped both. Then
in his next defense of the middle weight title he 2nd
round KO's Paul Williams at a catchweight Paul requested.
Pacquaio is more entertainment.

No way that people on here should be cosigning Manny
not fighting Mosley. If Pac is the best, how come he didn't
fight the best at the weight (147) that he was dominating in?
A Mosley win would have made Pac #1 in my book. I'm sure
that others share my same outlook because once Floyd fought
Mosley, he went to the #1 spot at WW over the more active
Manny. Goes to show how good of win Shane was for Floyd
compared to Pac's opponents. Also there are still boxing sites
that have Floyd Mayweather Jr ranked as P4P#1. Pac don't
even have a solid claim to it. Before Floyd retired it was only
him holding it down as #1 at WW and P4P. Right now though,
I think that Sergio Martinez trumps them both. Forget the
BS titles.

[IAMBIAZED]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but until everyone develops "Clairvoyance", maye we should just leave the ranking to those who are incharge.

[Pirao]

Ok, then my apologies for Ass/u/me'n you did. I gave
Pacquiao his credit for beating them guys when I thought
he wouldn't but the reality of it is, everyone knew that
Pacquiao would embarrass them. Pacquiao looked spectacular
against guys that had no chance. My mistake was not listening
to Freddie Roach when he predicted that Pac would smash
them out. Mayweather Jr and Martinez fought two guys
that people were up in the air about while Pac's opponents
were already doomed to fail. Pacquiao didn't beat Mayweather
for the top spot OR fight Sugar Shane Mosley who took over
the thrown at WW. How could Pac be over them? Pac
trumps Floyd as far as being more active and exciting
but that's about it. Martinez fought Paul Williams on
short notice fought Kelly Pavlik and whipped both. Then
in his next defense of the middle weight title he 2nd
round KO's Paul Williams at a catchweight Paul requested.
Pacquaio is more entertainment.

Mmm, what? This is an oxymoron, how did veryone know that Pacquiao would embarrass them when most people predicted him to lose those fights?

[IAMBIAZED]

Mmm, what? This is an oxymoron, how did veryone know that Pacquiao would embarrass them when most people predicted him to lose those fights?

Because he has this feature called "Replay video" and "Youtube" and so he can now safely say they are "lifeless", "nonmoving", "weight drained", etc.

[GRUSTLER]

Mmm, what? This is an oxymoron, how did veryone know that Pacquiao would embarrass them when most people predicted him to lose those fights?

Who actually besides me thought that Pac would
lose them fights? Freddie Roach had no doubt in
his mind that Pac would be victorious. Just listen
to his assessments..... De La Hoya (Can't pull the trigger),
Hatton (Will get KO'd in 3), Cotto (Not the same after
Margarito but lets still get him at a catchweight,
eventhough we fought the bigger Oscar there).
Clottey (Not that good), Margarito (gets KO'd).
If Pac was so great, he would fought a legit and
ranked fighter for that vacant Martinez title.
All of his fights were set up and there should
be no denying it.