Crawford resume is elite and underrated, Canelo is underestimating Crawford

[Rad]

Gamboa, Postol, Mean Machine, Spence, etc were all undefeated and highly rated when Crawford destroyed them. They weren’t the same after Crawford and other fighters just followed the blueprint.

Many years later Tank took 12 rounds to stop a completely shot Gamboa.

Crawford destroys more undefeated fighters than almost any other champion I’ve seen. People who know boxing know that’s impressive.

Canelo being disingenuous.

[IronDanHamza]

Postol and Spence are both top wins who were considered top level fighters at the time.

Gamboa unranked at 135 and essentially a Featherweight, decent win at best.

Mean Machine good win, ranked some where in the Top 10 at 147 like #8 or something like that.

Wouldn't say his resume is elite. It's good and he beat essentially the best that he could across 3 weight classes but the divisons were relatively weak, particularly 135 and 140.

[famicommander]

Postol and Spence are both top wins who were considered top level fighters at the time.

Gamboa unranked at 135 and essentially a Featherweight, decent win at best.

Mean Machine good win, ranked some where in the Top 10 at 147 like #8 or something like that.

Wouldn't say his resume is elite. It's good and he beat essentially the best that he could across 3 weight classes but the divisons were relatively weak, particularly 135 and 140.

Gamboa was not unranked at 135. TBRB had him #7 and he had won an interim strap prior to fighting Crawford.

What people forget about Gamboa is that he started out fighting at 130 and 135, then drained down to featherweight and won the titles there, then went to 130 and won a silly interim strap, and then went to 135 and won another interim strap. A lot of people pretend he just jumped right from being a full time featherweight to fighting Crawford at lightweight, but it was not a Canelo/Charlo situation. Gamboa had 14 total fights above featherweight (8 under the 130 limit, 6 under the 135 limit) before he fought Crawford. He just drained to 126 in between them.

Crawford's resume of TBRB ranked opponents and/or major world title winners, ignoring secondary and interim belts:
W vs #3 Ricky Burns UD 12 (fmr. WBO 130; reigning WBO 135; future WBA 140)
W vs #7 Yuriorkis Gamboa TKO 9 (fmr. WBA*/IBF 126)
W vs #2 Raymundo Beltran UD 12 (future WBO 135) [TBRB/Ring World title fight]
W vs #9 Thomas Dulorme TKO 6
W vs #1 Viktor Postol UD 12 (reigning WBC 140) [TBRB/Ring World title fight]
W vs #3 John Molina TKO 8
W vs #9 Felix Diaz RTD 10 (Diaz ranked at 147, fight at 140)
W vs #1 Julius Indongo KO 3 (reigning WBA/IBF 140) [undisputed title fight]
W vs #4 Jeff Horn TKO 9 (reigning WBO 147)
W vs Amir Khan TKO 6 (fmr. WBA/IBF 140)
W vs #10 Egidijus Kavaliauskas TKO 9
W vs Kell Brook TKO 4 (fmr. IBF 147)
W vs #4 Shawn Porter TKO 10 (fmr. IBF 147; WBC 147)
W vs #9 David Avanesyan KO 6
W vs #1 Errol Spence Jr. TKO 9 (reigning WBA/WBC/IBF 147) [TBRB/Ring/undisputed world title fight]
W vs #3 Israil Madrimov UD 12 (reigning WBA 154)

*Gamboa was originally WBA secondary titlist, then briefly promoted when the Super Champion vacated, then got demoted again when the Super Champion was reinstated, so ignore if you want. His IBF reign is clean.

[IronDanHamza]

Gamboa was not unranked at 135. TBRB had him #7 and he had won an interim strap prior to fighting Crawford.

What people forget about Gamboa is that he started out fighting at 130 and 135, then drained down to featherweight and won the titles there, then went to 130 and won a silly interim strap, and then went to 135 and won another interim strap. A lot of people pretend he just jumped right from being a full time featherweight to fighting Crawford at lightweight, but it was not a Canelo/Charlo situation. Gamboa had 14 total fights above featherweight (8 under the 130 limit, 6 under the 135 limit) before he fought Crawford. He just drained to 126 in between them.

Crawford's resume of TBRB ranked opponents and/or major world title winners, ignoring secondary and interim belts:
W vs #3 Ricky Burns UD 12 (fmr. WBO 130; reigning WBO 135; future WBA 140)
W vs #7 Yuriorkis Gamboa TKO 9 (fmr. WBA*/IBF 126)
W vs #2 Raymundo Beltran UD 12 (future WBO 135) [TBRB/Ring World title fight]
W vs #9 Thomas Dulorme TKO 6
W vs #1 Viktor Postol UD 12 (reigning WBC 140) [TBRB/Ring World title fight]
W vs #3 John Molina TKO 8
W vs #9 Felix Diaz RTD 10 (Diaz ranked at 147, fight at 140)
W vs #1 Julius Indongo KO 3 (reigning WBA/IBF 140) [undisputed title fight]
W vs #4 Jeff Horn TKO 9 (reigning WBO 147)
W vs Amir Khan TKO 6 (fmr. WBA/IBF 140)
W vs #10 Egidijus Kavaliauskas TKO 9
W vs Kell Brook TKO 4 (fmr. IBF 147)
W vs #4 Shawn Porter TKO 10 (fmr. IBF 147; WBC 147)
W vs #9 David Avanesyan KO 6
W vs #1 Errol Spence Jr. TKO 9 (reigning WBA/WBC/IBF 147) [TBRB/Ring/undisputed world title fight]
W vs #3 Israil Madrimov UD 12 (reigning WBA 154)

*Gamboa was originally WBA secondary titlist, then briefly promoted when the Super Champion vacated, then got demoted again when the Super Champion was reinstated, so ignore if you want. His IBF reign is clean.

He was unranked with The Ring Magazine at 135, which is what I was referring to.

It's the same difference either way. Gamboa was considered to be one of the Top fighters in the world when he was at 126. 130 and 135 not so much.

If you look at it solely on paper/boxrec then no but in reality he didn't really "start at 130 and 135", he turned pro in 2007 and by 2008 he was a full time Featherweight. Like alot of fighters when they turn pro especially over seas fighters he just had a few interim fights in his first year as a pro were he didn't want to cut weight before settling in America. His weight was 126 and was always going to be 126.

He was essentially a Featherweight moving up when he fought Crawford. Technically he'd had a couple tune up fights above 126 and in fairness Perez is a solid decent fighter but even in that fight Gamboa didn't look very good before his fight with Crawford.

It's a decent/good win either way. Not great.

[famicommander]

He was unranked with The Ring Magazine at 135, which is what I was referring to.

It's the same difference either way. Gamboa was considered to be one of the Top fighters in the world when he was at 126. 130 and 135 not so much.

If you look at it solely on paper/boxrec then no but in reality he didn't really "start at 130 and 135", he turned pro in 2007 and by 2008 he was a full time Featherweight. Like alot of fighters when they turn pro especially over seas fighters he just had a few interim fights in his first year as a pro were he didn't want to cut weight before settling in America. His weight was 126 and was always going to be 126.

He was essentially a Featherweight moving up when he fought Crawford. Technically he'd had a couple tune up fights above 126 and in fairness Perez is a solid decent fighter but even in that fight Gamboa didn't look very good before his fight with Crawford.

It's a decent/good win either way. Not great.

Again you say he was essentially a featherweight moving up, but that's not true. The De Leon fight was at a contracted 127, then he won an interim strap at 130, then he beat Perez, then he fought Crawford.

The last time Gamboa made 126 was March 2011 and the Crawford fight was in June 2014. He hadn't been a featherweight for over three years.

And Gamboa also had a fight at 130 in 2009, so he was not in fact a full time featherweight by 2008.

I'm not arguing that Gamboa wasn't best at featherweight and I don't think Gamboa was even a top 10 win for Crawford, so I'm not overrating it. But there's a reason he never even made 130 again after the Farenas fight in 2012.

[IronDanHamza]

Again you say he was essentially a featherweight moving up, but that's not true. The De Leon fight was at a contracted 127, then he won an interim strap at 130, then he beat Perez, then he fought Crawford.

I'm not arguing that Gamboa wasn't best at featherweight and I don't think Gamboa was even a top 10 win for Crawford, so I'm not overrating it. But there's a reason he never even made 130 again after the Farenas fight in 2012.

The reason is because he'd outgrown the weight. That's not a secret.

De Leon was at 127 because it was a non-title fight after the debacle in his fight previous. I'm not dis*****g that he'd outgrown the weight, he moved up for a reason. But he was still considered a Featherweight moving up despite his two warm up fights prior and was unranked via The Ring and unproven at 135, is the point.

[famicommander]

The reason is because he'd outgrown the weight. That's not a secret.

De Leon was at 127 because it was a non-title fight after the debacle in his fight previous. I'm not dis*****g that he'd outgrown the weight, he moved up for a reason. But he was still considered a Featherweight moving up despite his two warm up fights prior and was unranked via The Ring and unproven at 135, is the point.

Regardless of the reason, the fight with Daniel Ponce De Leon was, in fact, contracted at 127. So, once again, it had been 3 years and 3 months since Gamboa made the featherweight limit by the time he stepped into the ring to fight Crawford.

The Ring is not more credible than the TBRB. They are not independent; they've been a promotional tool since De La Hoya bought them and they've been even worse since the Saudis bought them.

Gamboa was ranked by the TBRB and he beat Perez for an interim belt at 135. Perez was undefeated at the time and would win his next 4 fights to become WBA world titlist before the gift draw and subsequent defeat against Anthony Crolla. Perez was a legitimate win at 135. Not a special fighter, but a legitimate lightweight who held a world title.

Gamboa was a legitimate lightweight by the time of the Crawford fight.

[IronDanHamza]

Regardless of the reason, the fight with Daniel Ponce De Leon was, in fact, contracted at 127. So, once again, it had been 3 years and 3 months since Gamboa made the featherweight limit by the time he stepped into the ring to fight Crawford.

The Ring is not more credible than the TBRB. They are not independent; they've been a promotional tool since De La Hoya bought them and they've been even worse since the Saudis bought them.

Gamboa was ranked by the TBRB and he beat Perez for an interim belt at 135. Perez was undefeated at the time and would win his next 4 fights to become WBA world titlist before the gift draw and subsequent defeat against Anthony Crolla. Perez was a legitimate win at 135. Not a special fighter, but a legitimate lightweight who held a world title.

Gamboa was a legitimate lightweight by the time of the Crawford fight.

No he wasn't. How was he? He had one win there and zero ranked wins. That's not a legitimate Lightweight.

Not interested in what you think is more credible. I go by The Ring's rankings and have done for decades and he was unranked.

Darleys Perez never a legitimate world champion. Quite sure you said you don't consider email champions to be legitimate but you seem to be moving the goalpost again. Also quite sure Perez has never beaten a ranked fighter in his entire life.

So no, Perez was not a legit lightweight, especially in 2013 and neither was Gamboa when Crawford fought him. As a rule of thumb you tend to actually have to beat ranked fighters at weight classes to be considered legitimate there. Something Perez never did and Gamboa hadn't to that point.

[famicommander]

No he wasn't. How was he? He had one win there and zero ranked wins. That's not a legitimate Lightweight.

Not interested in what you think is more credible. I go by The Ring's rankings and have done for decades and he was unranked.

Darleys Perez never a legitimate world champion. Quite sure you said you don't consider email champions to be legitimate but you seem to be moving the goalpost again. Also quite sure Perez has never beaten a ranked fighter in his entire life.

So no, Perez was not a legit lightweight, especially in 2013 and neither was Gamboa when Crawford fought him. As a rule of thumb you tend to actually have to beat ranked fighters at weight classes to be considered legitimate there. Something Perez never did and Gamboa hadn't won to that point.

Perez was 28-0 and had all of his fights at lightweight or above. Gamboa came and took his 0, and then Perez won all of his fights until Crolla took his belt. So how did Crolla become WBA champion if Perez was never WBA champion? How did Linares become WBA champion if Crolla wasn't? How did Lomachenko get his WBA belt?

You've got me all wrong on what I've said about email belts. I would always prefer a belt to be won in the ring and I will sometimes make fun of fighters that I perceive to be trying to game the system and intentionally acquire a belt via email, but it doesn't mean they're not a world titlist.

I've maintained that an alphabet soup belt holder is a world titlist, and any belt (as long as it's not a secondary or interim) is the same as the others. I hate the WBA most of all for sure, but world title is a world title. The alphabet soups decide what they decide.

I simply differentiate between that and a divisional championship. For me, the division champion is the TBRB champion. They are independent, they are unaffiliated, they rank the fighters 1-10 and ignore any belts or promotional affiliations or anything else. They are the people who left The Ring and founded an independent organization after The Ring's integrity was compromised by De La Hoya.

A world title (WBA, WBC, WBO, IBF) and a world championship (what The Ring should be, and what the TBRB is) are entirely different accomplishments. Darleys Perez is a world titlist because he held the top WBA world title at lightweight. He was never a world champion, because there can only be one world champion in any given division and he didn't win that. But it doesn't mean he wasn't the WBA world titlist.

After all, even Dmitry Bivol got his belt via email. Double email, technically. He was the WBA tertiary champion and then primary champion Andre Ward retired and secondary champion Badou Jack was promoted, but two days later Badou Jack signed up to challenge lineal/TBRB champion Adonis Stevenson instead and got stripped. So one day Bivol was tertiary champion, then the next day he was secondary champion, and then two days later he was primary champion without ever taking another fight.

But again, to me, that just meant he was WBA world titlist. An accomplishment, but not a championship. He didn't become champion until he beat Artur Beterbiev, and Artur Beterbiev didn't become champion (despite his belt) until he beat Gvozdyk.

[IronDanHamza]

Perez was 28-0 and had all of his fights at lightweight or above. Gamboa came and took his 0, and then Perez won all of his fights until Crolla took his belt. So how did Crolla become WBA champion if Perez was never WBA champion? How did Linares become WBA champion if Crolla wasn't? How did Lomachenko get his WBA belt?

You've got me all wrong on what I've said about email belts. I would always prefer a belt to be won in the ring and I will sometimes make fun of fighters that I perceive to be trying to game the system and intentionally acquire a belt via email, but it doesn't mean they're not a world titlist.


I've maintained that an alphabet soup belt holder is a world titlist, and any belt (as long as it's not a secondary or interim) is the same as the others. I hate the WBA most of all for sure, but world title is a world title. The alphabet soups decide what they decide.

I simply differentiate between that and a divisional championship. For me, the division champion is the TBRB champion. They are independent, they are unaffiliated, they rank the fighters 1-10 and ignore any belts or promotional affiliations or anything else. They are the people who left The Ring and founded an independent organization after The Ring's integrity was compromised by De La Hoya.

A world title (WBA, WBC, WBO, IBF) and a world championship (what The Ring should be, and what the TBRB is) are entirely different accomplishments. Darleys Perez is a world titlist because he held the top WBA world title at lightweight. He was never a world champion, because there can only be one world champion in any given division and he didn't win that. But it doesn't mean he wasn't the WBA world titlist.

After all, even Dmitry Bivol got his belt via email. Double email, technically. He was the WBA tertiary champion and then primary champion Andre Ward retired and secondary champion Badou Jack was promoted, but two days later Badou Jack signed up to challenge lineal/TBRB champion Adonis Stevenson instead and got stripped. So one day Bivol was tertiary champion, then the next day he was secondary champion, and then two days later he was primary champion without ever taking another fight.

But again, to me, that just meant he was WBA world titlist. An accomplishment, but not a championship. He didn't become champion until he beat Artur Beterbiev, and Artur Beterbiev didn't become champion (despite his belt) until he beat Gvozdyk.

So you didn't say that Daniel Dubois is not a legitimate world champion? Quite sure you did.

And if so, are you going to retract that statement now?

It's neither here nor there. You've said Perez was 28-0 like that matters. What relevance does that have? How many of those 28 fighters were ranked in the Top 10? Zero. Thus not a legitimate Lightweight.

Gamboa "taking his 0" doesn't magically make him a legitimate Lightweight. Like I just just said, you generally tend to have to actually beat ranked fighters at a weight class before you are considered legitimate at the weight class which Gamboa hadn't done.