What criteria makes an "ATG"? Specific as possible

[billeau2]

When I said "here", I didn't mean this thread specifically - but the forum in general.

Also, when talking about posters with an agenda - I certainly did not have you in mind!

I know... its not you. Its just kind of crazy for me. I feel like by just trying to evolve, understand certain issues of how we come to judgement, otherwise rational posters have been extremely defensive.

[billeau2]

I'll add this, and trust me I am not trying to be a pedant but I believe it needs to be addressed. To what extent are we differentiating between Great and Best?

There are many people who define 'great' as 'a sum of career accomplishments'; whereas 'best' is more 'your ability on a relative level compared to others'.

So are we just asking great in this context, which is basically looking at a resume? Or are we looking at it in the context of whom was better than someone else?

Not pedant at all! Those are the kind of issues I would like to address. My own answer would be: We are making a distinction between excellent and all time greatness. ATG becomes a meaningful category for a select few fighters... We call these fighters great, while we call many fighters excellent, but not of that status.

I believe we tend to use consensus... I think this is valid... Most people would look at Ray Robinson as being an ATG while Charlie Burley, who was an incredible fighter, as excellent, great, but not at that level. We justify this decision post priori (after the fact)... In other words, the way human intelligence works... we do not have a set of filters that tells us Robinson did this, and that, making him this... ditto for Burley. Rather we know, and then we defend the choice and make the categories we need to justify the decision.

This is fine. But some of the post priori categories we use, bare some scrutiny. We would never say Dempsey was an excellent fighter, but because the best opponent he beat was Sharkey, he was not an ATG... So KNOWING Dempsey is at ATG... what categories might we use to defend Jack... who some still consider the best heavyweight there ever was?

[billeau2]

ATG is a sci fi fantasy term guys who've usually never had one pro fight use to artificially hype, or diminish fighters not on their ATG list, based on their own personal & highly subjective bs qualifications. It's impossible to grade fighters from different eras in any proveable or fair way. All one can be is among the best of their own era. Everything else is mental ************ that can never be proven or disproven & therefore serves lil purpose to discuss in any serious way as boxing fans often seem to do.

Wow. I am finding out that there is actually quite a bit of pushback on the very nature of this category.

So Dempsey, Robinson, for example, they do not belong in a category with other fighters who we consider the best ever?

[billeau2]

I am saying that dedicated professionals > fans who occasionally post on the internet

Professionals? Like Jack London who called Johnson names? Like Burt Sugar who majored in Pre law and decided to write about the fights, aping the economic class of a sports writer vis a vis Oscar Madison while coming from an upper crust family?

You should love me... I got paid for articles written about boxing, in the mags... that makes me a professional.

Love ya man... but please for the sake of Jehovan GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR A SS BEFORE YOU SMOTHER YOURSELF!

[aboutfkntime]

Professionals? Like Jack London who called Johnson names? Like Burt Sugar who majored in Pre law and decided to write about the fights, aping the economic class of a sports writer vis a vis Oscar Madison while coming from an upper crust family?

You should love me... I got paid for articles written about boxing, in the mags... that makes me a professional.

Love ya man... but please for the sake of Jehovan GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR A SS BEFORE YOU SMOTHER YOURSELF!

keep thinking that shltheads on the internet > dedicated professionals

I have read some of the DUMBEST SHlT on this webite LMAO... and a lot of it was in that novel you wrote earlier

[The Old LefHook]

Jeez, back to boxing...

The role of flatulence control at the highest levels of the sport is obvious when considering No Mas. Duran overloaded the flatulence cannon with two steak dinners and a lot of chili sauce. It is called over training. A classic mistake. That is how bad he wanted to win.

But when, my historians, has a fighter literally had the offal knocked from him?

[billeau2]

keep thinking that shltheads on the internet > dedicated professionals

I have read some of the DUMBEST SHlT on this webite LMAO... and a lot of it was in that novel you wrote earlier

so now everyone on the internet is a sh ithead.

Everyone who thinks floyd is lacking in some areas has Floyd derangement syndrome...

You see a pattern here.

You are the dumb sh it mistaking an attempt to explain what you could not grasp with a novel... Youve proved to be a real cow's a55 on this thread... Take the high road stop embarrasing yourself.

[Bundana]

keep thinking that shltheads on the internet > dedicated professionals

I have read some of the DUMBEST SHlT on this webite LMAO... and a lot of it was in that novel you wrote earlier

No one believes internet ****heads are "better" than dedicated professionals.

But not all non-professionals are morons. There are lots of serious fans, who have not published books or written for magazines - but who have been following boxing for years and years. If I find, that they are truly into the history of the sport (rather than just pushing some silly agenda), I will listen with interest to what they have to say.

[aboutfkntime]

so now everyone on the internet is a sh ithead.

Everyone who thinks floyd is lacking in some areas has Floyd derangement syndrome...

You see a pattern here.

You are the dumb sh it mistaking an attempt to explain what you could not grasp with a novel... Youve proved to be a real cow's a55 on this thread... Take the high road stop embarrasing yourself.

nope, just the majority

keep thinking that dumb kids on the internet know more than dedicated professionals LMAO

[aboutfkntime]

No one believes internet ****heads are "better" than dedicated professionals.

But not all non-professionals are morons. There are lots of serious fans, who have not published books or written for magazines - but who have been following boxing for years and years. If I find, that they are truly into the history of the sport (rather than just pushing some silly agenda), I will listen with interest to what they have to say.

the guy I replied to in the post above... said exactly that