The paradox of weight and the development of boxing.

[DeeMoney]

Man, some serious straw man arguments being thrown out there.

Look, nobody is saying that simply being heavier means a fighter is better, or should win, Rather that being bigger (weight included) CAN be a an advantage. In some cases it can be a disadvantage.

I think its a bit off to establish a ‘golden zone’ of 5 or 8 pounds that would be optimal for all fighters to fall within. I seriously doubt the best version of Lennox Lewis would weigh less than 220, and i doubt the best version of Joe Louis would weigh more than 220. There is a different golden zone for each fighter respectively

[them_apples]

Man, some serious straw man arguments being thrown out there.

Look, nobody is saying that simply being heavier means a fighter is better, or should win, Rather that being bigger (weight included) CAN be a an advantage. In some cases it can be a disadvantage.

I think its a bit off to establish a ‘golden zone� of 5 or 8 pounds that would be optimal for all fighters to fall within. I seriously doubt the best version of Lennox Lewis would weigh less than 220, and i doubt the best version of Joe Louis would weigh more than 220. There is a different golden zone for each fighter respectively

I agree, but for example, Louis being 6 ft 2 and Lennox being 6 ft 5 we can quite easily conclude that if Louis and Lewis are the same sized man structurally, only Lewis is taller then this would dictate why Lewis ideal weight is 220.

Louis ideal weight is 205.

That being said, a good indicator of how much a fighter should weigh is by looking at the weights they had in the amateurs when they were young.

Obviously fighters are lighter as teenagers, but once you hit over 20 you really only naturally put on a few lbs of real muscle. Your muscles and bones harder no doubt, but we are talking weight here.

Foreman was 220 in the Olympics, and even 230 in some amateur fights. At 6 ft 4 Foreman is massive naturally to be 220+ and leaned down. He's trained down to 220.

As a pro he did the same thing because he fought in the 70s and his prime weight was 220-224 still.

Deontay Wilder as an amateur was 201 lbs and 6 ft 7. He still showed he can get down to 209 when he wants to. And even still Wilder looks to be on a steady weight training regimen, he's trying to build muscle and probably already has. This isn't the same thing as being born with muscle though.

Mike Tyson was 200+ lbs at 18. At 5 ft 10 this is why Tyson was a phenom for his time. He was training down to 205 lbs as an amateur. A guy who's training down to 205 could probably be 300 lbs in 1 year on a poor diet.

Lennox and Bowe were both 219 lbs as Olympic boxers. I suspect Lewis was already at that point building muscle and could have gone even lower if that was his goal. Bowe, I'd believe was comfortable at 219. This is a guess though.

The best example is the Klitschko brothers. Vitali is naturally heavy and strong. Wladimir was naturally slimmer and spent his career bulking up while Vitali spent his career trying to keep his weight down. I think this is easily gonna explain why Vitali had an iron chin and Wladimir had a glass jaw. One guy is probably 20 lbs naturally smaller than the other, yet they are both very close in height.

[QueensburyRules]

I agree, but for example, Louis being 6 ft 2 and Lennox being 6 ft 5 we can quite easily conclude that if Louis and Lewis are the same sized man structurally, only Lewis is taller then this would dictate why Lewis ideal weight is 220.

Louis ideal weight is 205.

That being said, a good indicator of how much a fighter should weigh is by looking at the weights they had in the amateurs when they were young.

Obviously fighters are lighter as teenagers, but once you hit over 20 you really only naturally put on a few lbs of real muscle. Your muscles and bones harder no doubt, but we are talking weight here.

Foreman was 220 in the Olympics, and even 230 in some amateur fights. At 6 ft 4 Foreman is massive naturally to be 220+ and leaned down. He's trained down to 220.

As a pro he did the same thing because he fought in the 70s and his prime weight was 220-224 still.

Deontay Wilder as an amateur was 201 lbs and 6 ft 7. He still showed he can get down to 209 when he wants to. And even still Wilder looks to be on a steady weight training regimen, he's trying to build muscle and probably already has. This isn't the same thing as being born with muscle though.

Mike Tyson was 200+ lbs at 18. At 5 ft 10 this is why Tyson was a phenom for his time. He was training down to 205 lbs as an amateur. A guy who's training down to 205 could probably be 300 lbs in 1 year on a poor diet.

Lennox and Bowe were both 219 lbs as Olympic boxers. I suspect Lewis was already at that point building muscle and could have gone even lower if that was his goal. Bowe, I'd believe was comfortable at 219. This is a guess though.

The best example is the Klitschko brothers. Vitali is naturally heavy and strong. Wladimir was naturally slimmer and spent his career bulking up while Vitali spent his career trying to keep his weight down. I think this is easily gonna explain why Vitali had an iron chin and Wladimir had a glass jaw. One guy is probably 20 lbs naturally smaller than the other, yet they are both very close in height.

- -Wlad gave a typical training day routine that didn't include weightlifting.

Hard work can either build muscle or reduce it depending diet and being overworked.

Training is hard work, but hvys are open wt class and the fighters can target their own optimal wts.

A past it Arreola and fresh Kownacki set the hvy punch count record last year, so clearly the bunch of navel gazers here are ill informed and out of date.

[them_apples]

- -Wlad gave a typical training day routine that didn't include weightlifting.

Hard work can either build muscle or reduce it depending diet and being overworked.

Training is hard work, but hvys are open wt class and the fighters can target their own optimal wts.

A past it Arreola and fresh Kownacki set the hvy punch count record last year, so clearly the bunch of navel gazers here are ill informed and out of date.

I'm 100 percent positive Wlad is blown up. If he stopped while training for a fight maybe so, but he was doing some bulking at some point or another.

and the record was set for compubox, not for all time. I'm pretty sure Ali vs Frazier 1 holds that record. Or maybe a Rocky fight.

[DeeMoney]

So then there was the heavyweight weigh in today. What yall think? A Bit much?

[Anthony342]

I thought a paradox is when two things cancel each other out potentially destroying the universe, like in time travel.

[The Old LefHook]

People show their ignorance so easily.

For instance, dilettantes think I am kidding.

But no, ye olde grip/to/weight ratio is one of the most consistently overlooked metrics in boxing. It should be there at the head of a boxer's statistics column. A man's grip partially determines his power and fully determines his power potential, by buggery. All other techniques being equal, the man with the superior grip punches harder. Fact.

[QueensburyRules]

I'm 100 percent positive Wlad is blown up. If he stopped while training for a fight maybe so, but he was doing some bulking at some point or another.

and the record was set for compubox, not for all time. I'm pretty sure Ali vs Frazier 1 holds that record. Or maybe a Rocky fight.

- -100% U brain gaskets have blown, hence U drooling drivel.

[billeau2]

positions defined thank me later

People are shaking their fists about... yelling at the moon as it were. Red herrings, Naval gazers... There are a couple of positions on these issues so best to know who you are reserving your bile for so to speak:

1) There are those that believe greater weight equals greater size in all cases with no qualifyers. I may have chicken bones but if I weight 300 pounds I am big.

2) There are those that think muscle weight is the sole determinant for size. The more muscles I have, the bigger I am. Again, i might have a light frame and pack on the muscles... To these folks it makes no difference.

3) There are those that believe size is a more complex quality that involves bone structure, density, muscle mass. When we talk about useful size to these individuals we talk about the kind of size that makes one a stronger fighter.

As far as fighters preparing there is debate as to how such preparation takes place based on these points of view. Some of us will never believe that fury coming in over 270 is a good thing, others will not think much of it. Now we can all know whom we are directing our insults towards yahhh!!

[Blond Beast]

People are shaking their fists about... yelling at the moon as it were. Red herrings, Naval gazers... There are a couple of positions on these issues so best to know who you are reserving your bile for so to speak:

1) There are those that believe greater weight equals greater size in all cases with no qualifyers. I may have chicken bones but if I weight 300 pounds I am big.

2) There are those that think muscle weight is the sole determinant for size. The more muscles I have, the bigger I am. Again, i might have a light frame and pack on the muscles... To these folks it makes no difference.

3) There are those that believe size is a more complex quality that involves bone structure, density, muscle mass. When we talk about useful size to these individuals we talk about the kind of size that makes one a stronger fighter.

As far as fighters preparing there is debate as to how such preparation takes place based on these points of view. Some of us will never believe that fury coming in over 270 is a good thing, others will not think much of it. Now we can all know whom we are directing our insults towards yahhh!!

I think weight is generally overrated as far as how much an advantage it is with one person weighing more than the other in the ring. Especially at the pro level and elite. It’s hard to quantify someone winning because they were just heavier. Nobody who was the heaviest had the hardest punch or best chin. I heard I think tessitore say HW weigh in’s are arbitrary as there’s no limit today. But I don’t think that’s the right word. I think measuring a fighter against his own weight precedent and performances is more important than the difference he weighs against his opponent. We love weight as it’s a tangible number to throw around. Gives us something to talk about. It’s not like anybody is going in the dunk tank or doing the tale of the tape these days. I’ve heard Tyson referred to as 5�10� a couple times tonight, though listed at 5�11.5�. We don’t even demand guys get on the scale pre ring walk yet how “big� an opponent is always an issue yet no one is willing to prove it. U can weigh in wearing shoes and shirts and sombreros now.