Put Sonny Liston in Tyson/Holyfield's era

[billeau2]

Something to consider regarding Liston's technique

For you guys who think Liston was slow, one thing to consider is what the stepping is supposed to do in combination with the punch. When Liston punches and steps he is trying to time it so his hand hits the man as close to when the foot hits the ground. This is how power is maximized. Try it on the bag sometime... When you hit the bag, time it so the foot steps and just as the foot hits the ground the extended arm hits the bag. The power is tremendous when done this way.

Liston was doing this with short deliberate steps, so he didn't overreach and unbalance, when approaching his target.

Dempsey talked about this same coordinated effort, in his book, when he mentions weight shifting and hitting. Liston was timing his combos this way and because of this coordinated effort it may have made him look slow in his delivery.

[Anthony342]

Good points, but what about the Holyfield from the second Bowe fight that trained with Stewart? I think that Holyfield has a shot against Liston. Plus Holyfield also had a hell of a beard himself.

[OctoberRed]

Good points, but what about the Holyfield from the second Bowe fight that trained with Stewart? I think that Holyfield has a shot against Liston. Plus Holyfield also had a hell of a beard himself.

Look at how well Holy did against 7-foot Valuev. I thought Holyfield was shot at that point and I felt he actually won!

[Anthony342]

Yeah, good point. Liston probably murders almost everyone from the '80s and most in the '90s, except Lewis, if he can protect his chin, which Stewart helped him to do (along with Wlad) and maybe Foreman, who was also heavy handed, maybe even more heavy handed than Liston.

[lightsout_finit]

If Liston were around during the late 80's, 90's era of HW when Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, etc. were around how do you think he would do? Do you think he can be dominant and potentially beat all of them? Or will he have some losses along the way?

Wouldn't rule him out to beat any of those guys.
Liston was pretty ****ing good...

[OctoberRed]

Wouldn't rule him out to beat any of those guys.
Liston was pretty ****ing good...

Liston is certainly a live dog to beat any of them, but there are also certain guys who would be live dogs to beat him, like Holyfield or Tyson or Lewis.

[lightsout_finit]

Liston is certainly a live dog to beat any of them, but there are also certain guys who would be live dogs to beat him, like Holyfield or Tyson or Lewis.

Yeah, I agree. If this hypothetical scenario takes place in modern times.

However what if this scenario plays out in the old days??

I say Liston destroys them pretty easily especially Lewis and Holyfield.

Liston could get wins fighting clean.
Could Lennox, Evander etc win without roids???

[shawn_w_smith]

He would have crushed Tyson, first of all. That jab would have given Tyson fits all night and he had the power to scare him off.

I think the Holyfield bout is really interesting, don't know who to take there.

I might actually favour Lewis, I'm not sure. He was great at avoiding the big shot.

[The Old LefHook]

Liston had good feet, a much overlooked fact. Ali in the first Liston fight had feet that never touched the ground, and Liston was only a quarter step behind him. Ali that night was the closest I ever saw a fighter come to flying.

Proportionality included, Sonny was a minor freak of nature. His fists could have belonged legitimately to a circus giant; his arms were long enough to reach with any serious heavyweight before or since.

It turns out harder to get the physical advantage on Liston than at first appears. He matches a height disadvantage with an equal reach, something rare. He answers a weight disadvantage with an average bone diameter exceeding his opponents'.

In today's culture Sonny would hold at least one of the heavyweight titles at some point. As far as domination goes, he is in with a rather hard crowd to dominate. But he at least holds his own, I believe.

[The Old LefHook]

An interesting aside, as Tony notes, is young Liston against second-career Foreman. I believe that in that case Sonny had the feet on him to seem like a ballerina chased by the plodding latter day George, while Charlie boxed his ears off in a safe and satisfying way, taking a page from what was usually his opponents' book of potshots and plays.