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Larry Holmes - Tyson and after

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    #1

    Larry Holmes - Tyson and after

    Much is made of Larry Holmes KO defeat to Mike Tyson back in 1988. But how far had Holmes slipped. What about his achievements after the Tyson loss. Let's take a look.

    WBC Champion 1978-85, losses title by clear unanimous decision to Light-Heavy King Michael Spinks 1985. losses rematch by razor thin split decision 1986. Out of ring for 21 months losing by KO4 to Mike Tyson. Out of ring 3yrs then makes comeback, beating 5 journeymen in 1991 then easily defeats Ray Mercer for WBO Title. 4 months later challenges Current Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World Evander Holyfield, losing clear decision over 12rds. Wins his next 7 bouts against fairly decent opposition and secures another World Title fight against newly crowned WBC Champion Oliver McCall. losing close fight by decision. Continues fighting, winning his next 9 fights against journeymen and old hasbeen champions, before hanging up his gloves aged 52. Holmes seemed to bare no ill effects health-wise once his boxing days were over. He truly was an incredible fighter, to be able to compete at such a high level for so long and at such an advanced age.
    The question is: Holmes only career KO loss to Mike Tyson in 1988 was he "washed-up, damaged goods, a shell of former self etc."...How much did he have left ?.. How did he go on to lose two decisions for the title and win the WBO title against undefeated Ray Mercer?
    Tags: holmes, larry, tyson
    #2
    Well Holmes was an exceptional fighter. My totally unfounded take on his comeback after Tyson is that he was roided up.

    I believe that what he did was unnatural. To me he showed his age against Spinks and subsequently Tyson. Suddenly he Rolls back father time with a feelgood performance against Mercer. Ok Mercer was limited and Holmes definetely had the psychological upper hand there but still it was very much against the odds.

    Then there's the Holyfield fight. Holmes might have lost, but he certainly gave a good account of himself. It just doesn't seem natural to me. That is all.

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      #3
      Holmes did some things after Tyson that were impressive at that advanced age. I do not know if in his prime he beats mike as shave s , snipes and withespoon all had him stung him and mike is was just a explosive finisher.

      Comment

        #4
        Originally posted by BattlingNelson View Post
        Well Holmes was an exceptional fighter. My totally unfounded take on his comeback after Tyson is that he was roided up.

        I believe that what he did was unnatural. To me he showed his age against Spinks and subsequently Tyson. Suddenly he Rolls back father time with a feelgood performance against Mercer. Ok Mercer was limited and Holmes definetely had the psychological upper hand there but still it was very much against the odds.

        Then there's the Holyfield fight. Holmes might have lost, but he certainly gave a good account of himself. It just doesn't seem natural to me. That is all.
        You could be correct there Bat. Holmes certainly found a "Fountain of Youth" somewhere. Yet i feel that every heavyweight since Foreman in the early 70s has been using roids. Norton, Weaver, Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, Klitschko's and most contenders. Their physique gives them away.

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          #5
          Originally posted by BattlingNelson View Post
          Well Holmes was an exceptional fighter. My totally unfounded take on his comeback after Tyson is that he was roided up.

          I believe that what he did was unnatural. To me he showed his age against Spinks and subsequently Tyson. Suddenly he Rolls back father time with a feelgood performance against Mercer. Ok Mercer was limited and Holmes definetely had the psychological upper hand there but still it was very much against the odds.

          Then there's the Holyfield fight. Holmes might have lost, but he certainly gave a good account of himself. It just doesn't seem natural to me. That is all.
          I disagree with the "unnatural" part of this. When Holmes lost to Tyson he had been out of the ring for two years and didn't have proper time to prepare. It was also a bad style match up at that stage of his career.

          Holmes came back after that fight he had the proper time to prepare and he very carefully selected lower tier opposition. Holmes was a very skilled and intelligent fighter in the ring and that helped him considerably but he still clearly lost to Holyfield and McCall in ways that would have never happened in his prime.

          In the Mercer fight Holmes fought a large portion of that fight on the ropes to save his legs. That certainly doesn't sound like something a "roided" fighter would do not to mention his flabby body. He was nearly dropped in the first round by a jab when he tried to fight in the middle of the ring and lets face it; Mercer was not the smartest fighter and certainly no match for Holmes ring IQ. Mercer always had trouble with boxers too. Nothing unusual about that to me.

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            #6
            Short training camp hurt Holmes the most vs tyson... He obviously was a very durable guy when having properly timed training camps...
            That's not to say mike still wouldn't have stopped him, but larry would have a much better chance with a longer camp

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by joseph5620 View Post
              I disagree with the "unnatural" part of this. When Holmes lost to Tyson he had been out of the ring for two years and didn't have proper time to prepare. It was also a bad style match up at that stage of his career.

              Holmes came back after that fight he had the proper time to prepare and he very carefully selected lower tier opposition. Holmes was a very skilled and intelligent fighter in the ring and that helped him considerably but he still clearly lost to Holyfield and McCall in ways that would have never happened in his prime.

              In the Mercer fight Holmes fought a large portion of that fight on the ropes to save his legs. That certainly doesn't sound like something a "roided" fighter would do not to mention his flabby body. He was nearly dropped in the first round by a jab when he tried to fight in the middle of the ring and lets face it; Mercer was not the smartest fighter and certainly no match for Holmes ring IQ. Mercer always had trouble with boxers too. Nothing unusual about that to me.
              Holmes training camp was longer than the training camp Tyson had to prepare for Lewis

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                #8
                Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
                Holmes training camp was longer than the training camp Tyson had to prepare for Lewis
                And the results were about the same

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by joseph5620 View Post
                  I disagree with the "unnatural" part of this. When Holmes lost to Tyson he had been out of the ring for two years and didn't have proper time to prepare. It was also a bad style match up at that stage of his career.

                  Holmes came back after that fight he had the proper time to prepare and he very carefully selected lower tier opposition. Holmes was a very skilled and intelligent fighter in the ring and that helped him considerably but he still clearly lost to Holyfield and McCall in ways that would have never happened in his prime.

                  In the Mercer fight Holmes fought a large portion of that fight on the ropes to save his legs. That certainly doesn't sound like something a "roided" fighter would do not to mention his flabby body. He was nearly dropped in the first round by a jab when he tried to fight in the middle of the ring and lets face it; Mercer was not the smartest fighter and certainly no match for Holmes ring IQ. Mercer always had trouble with boxers too. Nothing unusual about that to me.
                  I hear ya.

                  Two points though:

                  1: Holmes's body was flappy yes, but that has nothing to do with roids. What I think he did was improve stamina with the super drug of the day: EPO.

                  2: Mercer had trouble with boxers. Yeah he did have trouble with old Holmes, but he fought very well against Lennox. holmes over Lennox? Hmmmmm.....

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by BattlingNelson View Post
                    I hear ya.

                    Two points though:

                    1: Holmes's body was flappy yes, but that has nothing to do with roids. What I think he did was improve stamina with the super drug of the day: EPO.

                    2: Mercer had trouble with boxers. Yeah he did have trouble with old Holmes, but he fought very well against Lennox. holmes over Lennox? Hmmmmm.....
                    Roids would not help Holmes much in a boxing match, but EPO would help tremendously. going 12rds would be like a stroll in the park for any fighter.

                    I Thought Lennox just edged his fight with Mercer, but what was surprising was how Mercer beat Lennox to the jab all night long. The fight was also Mercer's first fight in over a year and showed Lennox to be limited skills wise.

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